The other day, in another part of Fort Myers and another spring park, Joe Girardi was talking about Pedroia, saying, "It's good to see guys like that succeed. It's the message you want to send to kids and everybody, that anybody has a shot to fulfill their dreams. A guy you wouldn't even know was an athlete if you saw him walking down the street."
Then Girardi said, "There's no size chart in baseball."
There was no size chart for Pedroia, who was the best little guy in his sport before he became MVP. He got off to a terrible start in his rookie season and Terry Francona, the Red Sox manager, stayed with him, and Pedroia just kept swinging from his heels and making the plays at second and winning games. Now he has become a star of his sport.
The kid who fights to be the Yankees' starter in center field on Opening Day, Brett Gardner, is not the kind of hitter that Pedroia is, will never have that kind of power. But Gardner does not fit the modern profile of a Yankee anymore than Pedroia fit the profile of baseball star. He is the kind of kid the Yankees hardly ever produce anymore, a grinder with a ton of heart, one sending the same kind of message that Pedroia did, that anybody has a shot at their dreams.
This is what you hear a lot from Yankee fans these days, because of Mr. Fun, Alex Rodriguez: How hard he makes it to root for their team.
Gardner makes it easy.
"He is somebody anybody can relate to," Girardi said. "He's one of those guys who would run through a wall for you. People want to root for that. So many of the big guys in this sport, you look at what they do and say, 'No way I could do that.' But guys like Melky (Cabrera) and Brett, they're two guys people absolutely can relate to. It's what I mean about how our sport lends itself to all shapes and sizes."
Besides the irrelevant mention of A-Rod - anything to take a shot at him, huh Mike? - I think Lupica is right about Gardner. He is easy to root for, and like Pedroia, he's a "little engine that could" type of player. They both also play great defense and hustle on every play. You will never question how much guys like this want to win. And don't discount the effect the kind of players have on their teammates. If they succeed they have the ability to inspire those around them to play harder.Gardner himself comes in after batting practice on this day, never looking as big as the 5-10 he is supposed to be, reminding you more of a Pedroia and says, "In sports, the 40th-rounder is supposed to have as good a chance as the first-rounder if he can do the job."
He wasn't a 40th-rounder. He was picked with the last pick of the third round in the 2005 draft and began spraying the ball to all fields almost immediately and stealing bases and being a dirty uniform everywhere he played. Before all that he was a walk-on player at the College of Charleston. In the spring of A-Rod, and all the talk about the big-money pitchers, he has made himself into a story, and as much of a Yankee kid to root for as we have had in a while.
Another reason I'm glad Lupica compares Gardner to Pedroia is because of their slow starts in the big leagues and the patience that the Red Sox showed with Pedroia. He, like Gardner, struggled at first in the big leagues, hitting just .184 with 2 HR and 7 RBI through his first 147 major league at-bats. I'm sure there were many Sox fans saying the kid wasn't ready, or couldn't hit at the MLB level.
Gardner at this point in his career is hitting .228 with 0 HR and 16 RBI through his first 127 at-bats, slightly better than Pedroia, and hit .305 after being recalled from the minors in mid-August. But already Yankees fans are ready to give up on him and have come to the conclusion that he can't hit at this level.
Does this mean I think Gardner is or will be better than Pedroia? Absolutely not. But it does mean we shouldn't give up on a player because of a bad two month stretch. There's nothing close to a guarantee that Gardner will be a good major leaguer, but with all that he could potentially bring to the table with his speed, defense and hustle, the Yankees would be foolish not to give him a real chance.
23 Comments:
Gardner is a completely different type of player than Pedroia. He is more like a Jacoby Ellsbury type player if we have to compare him to a red sox.
But yeah for once the met shill Lupica wrote a decent column on the yankees. Gardner and Pedroia simlarity is they are both small scrappy players.
Pedroia only is who he is because the manager stuck with him, most managers woulda pulled him even sent him to the minors when he was batting 200.
@ Steve the Red Sox organization stuck with him. When he got off too that horrible start Francona wanted to bench him but the management told him to keep playing him.
I say let the yankees give brett gardner till around the allstar break. If he is playing horribly than they should make a trade at the trade deadline.
Dustin Pedroia MiLB OPS: 846
Brett Gardner MiLB OPS: 774
Gardner might be a nice little player, but everyone knew Pedroia was going to hit.
It's a ridiculous comparison.
NYSJ,
Except their minor-league numbers have nothing to do this comparison.
Also, nobody is saying Gardner is going to be as good as Pedroia.
It's a ridiculous comparison because it's being made with an unquantifiable attribute: Grit. Can we get over our love affair with gritty players and just look for guys who produce. Grit is an accolade that's been invented to give marginal players more value, and guys like Derek Jeter HOF credentials.
First of all, are you implying that Jeter isn't a hall of famer?
And second, having guys who hustle and bust their butt is never a bad thing.
It's great to have guys who hustle. As pinch-runners.
It's better to have guys who can actually hit the ball.
Couldn't care less about how much of a "grinder" Gardner is. His value to the team should be based on how well he hits and plays centerfield. Period.
Nobody is saying anything different. But the fact that he hustles and plays hard is a good thing. And the guy deserves a chance to prove himself before being relegated to just a pinch runner.
Sure he does. But how much of a chance? Pedroia was given time because they KNEW he could hit. All the grittiness in the world wasn't going to keep him in the Red Sox lineup.
If Gardner is hitting .230 (with no power) in mid-May, how long do we have to stick with him?
And Lupica made a mistake mentioning stats. If he wanted to write an article about how Gardner can help a team with some immeasurable grinding, fine. Comparing his stats to Pedroia's is absurd.
That was my original point.
If the Yankees are winning and he's stealing bases and playing good defense I'd give him the whole year. Their only other option right now is Melky.
ok.
Liam, what does that mean, you agree or no?
@Greg Cohen:
I'm not implying anything. If Jeter is a HOFer than so is Bernie Williams. And Bernie Williams is not a HOFer. I will add a disclaimer here that I think a good 75% of the people in the HOF don't belong there. It should be reserved for the absolute elite, not the "very good" That's all Jeter is, or has been, is very good. And that's not a knock.
Second of all, Arod busts his but every play but he doesn't get credit for it. The only time hustle should even be mentioned when talking about a player is when they don't do it. I find it absurd that we give these guys credit for something they are supposed to do and 90% do do. It's like complimenting a father for taking care of his kids. Its ridiculous.
Be productive and help the team win, that where the debate on a player's value should end. When we get into immeasurable, subjective garbage like grittiness and "intangibles" then we're just finding superlatives for people who maybe just aren't that good.
Jeter is going to be a 3000 hit club member with at least four WS rings. That's a HOF'er. Bernie I think is borderline. Jeter is a first ballot.
You're right about A-Rod, he deserves more credit for how hard he works and his hustle.
With all the crap going on in baseball, if 3,000 hits doesn't get you into the HOF these days I don't know what does.
Guys, I watched Gardner play in Trenton, and he was true to his whole MOA everywhere he has played. He started out looking overmatched, then got better.
I personally think he'll be just fine so long as every single game he plays isn't over analyzed every day by people like us.
I see him ending up around .270, maybe .330-.340 OBP, 1 HR if he gets lucky, but a fair amount of doubles and several triples. He'll drive the other teams crazy on the bases, steal around 30 with a high success ratio and cover tons of ground in the outfield with a decent enough throwing arm. Anything better than that is a bonus.
But if he does that in his first major league season, I won't be disappointed, especially with all the other hitters in that lineup. It's about time we had some true athleticism in the Yankee outfield.
Anonymous,
"When we get into immeasurable, subjective garbage like grittiness and "intangibles" then we're just finding superlatives for people who maybe just aren't that good".
Wrong! The problem with "gritty & intangibles" isn't with the skill of the players in question but with the people who track stats. I know these words drive Saber metric type people nuts because "intangibles" don't fit neatly into an .xls spreadsheet, therefore it isn't real. That's a load of bull. Throughout the history of the game, which by the way has been around a lot longer than Money Ball, there are long list's of great players who possessed the “intangibles” necessary to help their teams win big games. Conversely there have been many statistical wonders in the game that have produced nothing but great personal statistics (see A-Rod).
I have heard this argument a thousand times and no matter how many times the argument is made the end is the same. Guy’s like Jeter and Pedroia will continue to prove Saber metrics wrong. I mean your arguing over whether Jeter is really HOF worthy but if you know the Yankee’s well you would understand that some of those intangible’s that Jeter brought the game have had a direct impact on the team winning 4 WS in 6 years. He didn’t do it alone he had help from guy’s like Brosius who is a lifetime .257 hitter with little power. Having said that it is hard to imagine how the things would have looked in ’98 had he not hit .471 in the WS or .375 in the ’99 WS or .371 in the ‘2000 WS.
To be truthful with you guys, I think Gardner will turn out like Melky. He will have a good start, then as the season goes on he's going to slump and then in the minors. Who knows what will happen.
Anyone who thinks Jeter isn't a first ballot hall of famer is out of their minds
Jeter compares favorably to almost any shortstop in the HOF heres the link
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/playerModule.do
@Brad
First define intangibles.
Second, I would say that the Yankees recent failures are more the result of poor team construction. When the team was more a mix of role players and borderline stars, they played a different brand of baseball, i.e. moving runners, sacrificing, stealing bases, solid defense. Somewhere post 2001, this team became a group of sluggers, players you don't ask to do those things. Certainly you would like it if they did it on their own, but their mission is to drive in runs. I mean how many times did you yell at Giambi just to push one down third base? And how many times did he try to pull the ball through 6 defenders on one side of the field? Hitters who are asked to be run producers, and are paid based on those statistics are not going to hit a ground ball to the right side to move a runner. You can say that they are selfish, but you can't excuse how foolish it is for the front office to build a team of players with that mindset. Oh, and a lack of consistent starting pitching.
If we are talking about character, its a load of crap. Mickey Mantle was a man of questionable character at best and yet he led his team to 7 WS titles. Babe Ruth, same. The truth is it doesn't matter about what you can put in an .xls. I am not a sabrematrician nor a proponent of moneyball. I am interested in what wins games on the field, and you can't tell me that a pat on the back, or a media savvy veteran is more valuable than a homerun, or a two-run double, or a shut down ace. But for some reason we want to project all these ambiguous, moral and character-related accolades onto players that we like. Guys that are "good" That "play the game the right way, and for the right reasons." For some reason we excuse the fact that Jeter is paid 21M/yr, and from a production standpoint doesn't even approach earning that money (while Arod exceeds his salary value even in an off year)because of the value Jeter gives us off the field, and because he doesn't play for the money(right). I mean are we more concerned with the Yankee Brand, the perception of the team in the public eye than we are about winning? I know I'm not. But more and more that seams to be the prevailing wisdom with Yankee fans. Me, I want #27, and production on the field is how we get there. I don't care if these guys get along. That idealist romantic bullshit. Look at the 77-78 teams. Look at the tenuous relationship between Ruth and Gerhig in the later years. It's contrived and petty, and most Yankee fans do it because they want to protect the "Captain" and demonize the guy who said some not nice things about him 8 years ago in a magazine. It's obscene. Oh, and by the way, its no coincidence that the importance of intangibles became of paramount importance after the emergence of two separate athletes in two separate sports, both given total credit for their teams' successes: Derek Jeter and Tom Brady.
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