Last October, the Yankees made Joe Torre an offer he couldn't accept, the chance to be a lame duck in the shooting gallery known as Yankee Stadium.
They came with 6 million bucks in one hand and brass knuckles in the other. Torre walked away because he knew that, even at that kind of money, he wasn't going to be a manager, just a punching bag.
Can you imagine how hard and fast the fists would be flying in the Bronx today if Torre had accepted the deal, only to find himself 10 games behind the Tampa Bay Rays, of all teams, and 5 1/2 games out of the wild-card race with fewer than 40 games to go?
And for an organization that prides itself on its baseball judgment, it was an incredibly weak and shortsighted play by the Yankees, who thought they needed a new voice in the clubhouse.
Today, Torre's Dodgers sit atop the NL West in a first-place tie with the Arizona Diamondbacks. And in the Bronx, Joe Girardi - New Joe - struggles to find a way to keep his $209-million roster alive in August, let alone October.
In one sense, it is clear the Yankees owe Torre an apology, because clearly, he wasn't the problem with this team last year any more than Girardi is the problem with it this year.
In another sense, it is Torre who owes a hearty thank you to the Yankees, for showing him the way to the door just before the roof fell in on the rest of them.
Nearly a year later, the ugly public divorce between the Yankees and Torre turns out to have been a blessing for one but a wash for the other.
For once I agree with Mr. Matthews, I also think the way the Yankees treated Torre was wrong, embarrassing, and misguided on the Yankees part, and yes, they probably do owe him an apology.
The Yankees brass, and many fans for that matter, didn't realize what they had in Torre, and how hard it is to find that again. He may have burnt out some bullpen arms (you kinda have to when you only have one or two reliable ones), but the bottom line was the Yankees made the postseason every year while Torre was here and he was a big part of it. Don't forget how much the players (excluding Gary Sheffield and Kenny Lofton) respected Torre, and loved playing for him, the Yankees brass certainly did.
I'm not a big fan of change just for the sake of change, and that's what the Torre decision was all about. There was really no reason to change managers besides the idea that change was necessary. Well, it wasn't. Making the postseason every year is a good thing, the brass blamed Torre for there own mistakes. The real problem is that since 2004 the Yankees haven't had good enough teams to win a championship, it wasn't Torre's fault these teams were severely flawed.
Would Torre have been able to handle the 2008 Yankees, and all these injuries any better than Joe Girardi? You never know, but based on what he did in 12 years as Yankee manager there's a good chance he might have. Like I said, the 2004-2007 teams had their problems; injuries, bad bullpens, and shoddy starting pitching, but Torre always found a way with those teams to at least make the postseason.
17 Comments:
It was a shame to see what happened to Torre.
So far this year, Joe Girardi has been a complete disappointment. The injuries can't be blamed on him. but he shoulders a fair amount of responsibility for this team's current standings. Girardi has shown an inability to motivate the team, wacky choices when it comes to lineups and a rash of poor in-game decisions. I think starting day one next year, he's on the hot seat.
"(Torre) wasn't the problem with this team last year any more than Girardi is the problem with it this year."
That sentence perfectly sums up a lot of baseball's problems. There is absolutely no accountability in baseball for one's actions. Unlike football where a player can be cut or released for sucking, in baseball players like Pavano not only suck talent wise, but then they end up sucking the life out of a team financially. And in the end does Pavano get the boot? Of course not, the manager does, because he is the only one who can from a business and contractual standpoint take the blame.
We do owe Torre an apology. And while I have plenty of criticism for Girardi, I can't remember taking issue with how Torre ran the team.
I'm thankful for the job Joe did, but it was time for him to go. It was time for a change.We need to get some well rounded players to fit Girardi's system. We don't need to overpay for guys that can't bunt or hustle.
BB
"Would Torre have been able to handle the 2008 Yankees, and all these injuries any better than Joe Girardi? You never know, but based on what he did in 12 years as Yankee manager there's a good chance he might have."
The quote above sums up the ever changing, fairweather personality of the post 96' Yankee fan. This blogger, and those sho regularly read his blog have little real knowledge of baseball. And no one owes anyone an apology. These are grown men, dealing in a business. It was not the end of 5-year romantic relationship. The Yankees would probably be fighting off the Blue jays for third if Torre was still around. You'd have bullpen arms dragging, starters being pulled after the first sign of adversity, never allowed to fix their own messes, and 111 different starting lineups. Not to mention the added distraction of the front office, since, as you said, Torre would have most decidedly been on the hot seat. This team has kept afloat with smoke and mirrors. If you said to any Yankee fan with a brain that Mike Mussina would lead the team in wins with 16 and be the teams MVP, that Joba, Wang, Hughes, and Kennedy would play minimal to no roles in the Yankees season, that Posada and Matsui would be lost all year, that Andy Petitte would be terribly inconsistent, that Mariano Rivera would not be able to preserve a tie game, that Derek Jeter would hit 35 point below his career average for 2/3's of the year, and hit into an inordinate number of DP's in big spots, that Cano would hit under .200 into June, and under .270 the entire year, that A-Rod would never get a clutch hit (again), and that the Yanks would still have a chance at a playoff birth, but theiir "mediocrity" was Girardi's fault, and the mere appearance of Joe Torre would cure all the teams ills, they would have slapped you across the face. Mind you Torre's Dodgers are in contention but barely over .500. They would be fighting to stay in fourth place in the AL East. This post, and the article linked to it are a joke. There isn't a true baseball fan among you.
BB,
You said "I'm thankful for the job Joe did, but it was time for him to go. It was time for a change.We need to get some well rounded players to fit Girardi's system. We don't need to overpay for guys that can't bunt or hustle."
Why was it time for Torre to go?
What is this system Joe Girardi has?
No anonymous, you are a joke.
Intelligent reply. Exactly what I expected. Look, give me a reason to apologize to Torre other than the current state of the Yankees. He had as much responsibility in his departure as the Yankee brass did. A 6 million dollar offer is a bruise to his ego? That makes him a lame duck? Both sides wanted to part ways. The Yankees failure to execute a sacrifice bunt, hit and run or sac fly has nothing to do with who's on the bench. Get a clue.
A couple things I'd like to point out about your comment;
First of all Robinson Cano hit .287 in June, not under .200. And since May began he's hitting over .300.
Jeter led the team in doubleplays last year, so his DPs this year shouldn't come as a surprise.
There have already been 98 different lineups this year. Last year there were only 102.
Torre burnt out arms because the bullpens he had to deal with from '04-'07 were awful. When you only have one or two reliable arms, you kinda have to use them.
Also Torre's Dodgers are without their ace and closer, are a much younger team than the Yankees, And also had their starting SS and CF'er on the shelf for long periods of time.
What's wrong with fans like you is you blame Torre for the recent failures and can't see all that he did for this team. How you call me a '96er is beyond me, especially when you act like one.
Funniest part of it... I never blamed Torre and I don't blame Torre or Girardi. I don't feel you owe an apology to someone in business, and I feel the decision is mutual. Furthermore, last years Yankees were never decimated the way this year's version is. You do make some good points Greg. The point about Cano was his overall average. The point about Jeter is his age is starting to show. The point about the bullpen is that Torre didn't clearly define roles, and many times overused guys without giving other guys a shot to prove their consistency. Anyway, Torre is better off and I am happy for him. Yankee fans should be to and leave it at that.
They owe him an apology because they used him as a scapegoat for all the problems with the team. He wasn't the problem, didn't deserve a pay cut or a one year deal, and should still be the Yankees manager.
He didn't want to part ways, he wouldn't have flown to Tampa to negotiate if he did.
I don't blame Girardi for all the problems with team has, I just think Torre would have done a better job.
"The Yankees failure to execute a sacrifice bunt, hit and run or sac fly has nothing to do with who's on the bench. Get a clue."
You do know teams do actually practice this stuff? I wonder if the Yankees do.
Greg,
The success of the yankees is measured by how many championships they win.Over the last 7 years the Torre managed yankees:failed to get out of the ALDS in 02,05,06 07
got swept by the Marlins in 03,lost to the redsox in grand fashion in 04 and lost to Az in 2001.The bottom line the Torre managed yankees haven't won any championships in the last 7 yrs.It was time for a change.
BB
The idea that the Yankees have to win the world series every year is ridiculous. The '96-'00 Yanks were very, very special, and what they did was very hard.
And even though it seemed easy, making the playoffs is a huge accomplishment, and to do it 12 years straight is an even bigger accomplishment.
Has this changed helped the Yankees? Has Joe Girardi made the Yankees a better team? I don't think so. He manages a bullpen well, but besides that I'm really not impressed.
By the way, they lost in six to the '03 Marlins.
Also if the success of the Yankees is measured by winning the world series, then I guess by that thinking Girardi is a major failure and should be fired. Right?
Joe Torre was the man, and it's about time some "fans" realized it.
- J.C.
Greg,
The guy hasn't managed a full season.He has guys on the team that can't bunt or get a sacrifice hit. Give me a break.I don't expect the yankees to win the series every yr. All i'm saying is that the expectations are set very high.The bar should be set high, we have an ownership that spends tons on money to win
BB
I think some of you guys are really overstating the position of the manager. Is it more important for a baseball manager to call a hit and run, or an intentional walk, or a sac bunt at the right time? Or is it more important for a manager to be the leader of the team, to push them, and make the team almost afraid to fail for him because they respect him so much?
Anyone who has significant baseball knowledge can tell when the right time is to bunt, the right time to steal, the right time to bring in a new pitcher. It's not a science, it's utilizing the scenario that will yield the best result based on numbers and stats. And these players all know what to do during defensive bunting situations, runners on third, etc. so it's not like he's coaching them on anything.
The manager gets too much credit when teams win, and conversely too much bad press when the team loses. Now whether Girardi is better at being a leader and being as respected as Torre is another question, but I think that the role of manager really has to be put in perspective.
"Is it more important for a baseball manager to call a hit and run, or an intentional walk, or a sac bunt at the right time? Or is it more important for a manager to be the leader of the team, to push them, and make the team almost afraid to fail for him because they respect him so much?"
I think it's more important to lead the team. That's what Torre did so well, that's why his players loved him (one of the reason).
"Anyone who has significant baseball knowledge can tell when the right time is to bunt, the right time to steal"
Joe Girardi has proven many times this year that he hasn't figured this out yet.
Post a Comment