Monday, March 30, 2009

Neyer: Slow Down With All The Ramiro Pena Hype

Rob Neyer had this to say in response to Bill Madden's article this weekend in which he called Ramiro Pena the Yankees short stop of the future.

Well first let's look at a couple quotes from the Madden article:
"When I first saw him three years ago, you could knock the bat out of his hands," said one veteran scout whose primary assignment is in the minor leagues. "But he was a magician with the glove and that made him someone to keep an eye on. Now that he's gained a little weight, put on a little muscle, he's no longer an 'out.' He can handle the bat. I always felt his glove would get him to the big leagues, but now I can see him as an everyday shortstop."
"Best looking young shortstop I've seen in a couple of years," said one National League scout.
And now for Neyer:
I haven't seen Ramiro Pena play. Until Sunday, I had never heard of Ramiro Pena. And now he's the Yankees' shortstop of the future!

Well, maybe.

This past winter, John Sickels wrote about 40 Yankees prospects in his book. Ramiro Pena wasn't one of them.

This past winter, the guys at Baseball America wrote about 30 Yankees prospects in their book. Ramiro Pena wasn't one of them. They mentioned a number of other young players, too, in their minor league depth chart for the Yankees. And here's where Ramiro Pena shows up: behind Carmen Angelini (Yankees' No. 28 prospect), Garrison Lassiter (not ranked) and Eduardo Nunez (not ranked).

I'm not saying Bill Madden's scouts are wrong about Ramiro Pena. But if they're right, they and Madden should be summarily promoted to the highest positions in their fields. Or, at the very least, they should get together and write a book about young baseball players who are a lot better than everyone else thinks.
I have to agree with Neyer. It does seem that people are jumping the gun a bit on Pena's future. People are getting a little too excited about a good spring. Yes, he's got a great glove, there's no doubt about that, but in four season in the minors he's just a career .258/.316/.319 hitter. I think he could probably be a pretty valuable utility man in the majors for a while, but who knows if he can hit well enough in the majors to be an everyday SS for the New York Yankees. For now, I think it's best if we just wait and see how things work out without making any bold predictions.

33 Comments:

Anonymous said...

"I haven't seen Ramiro Pena play. Until Sunday, I had never heard of Ramiro Pena. And now he's the Yankees' shortstop of the future!"

First quote says everything about this article, Youve never seen him play so why are you commenting on him you damn fool. Again with these pathetic writers, do some actual work before for once. O and if you think for one second that your word is better than Bill Madden , hmm id think again fool.

Anonymous said...

Commenting on a player who is 23 years old and has yet to receive a good major league look is just ridiculous all together.
Need i remind any of you people that no one had any clue that Robinson cano would be an everyday player, or CMW for that matter. O and BTW if i were you i would hope that Madden's opinion of Pena is justified, because Jeter wont last much longer at SS, bottom line.

Greg Cohen said...

While you have a good point, I think he's right. Pena has done nothing in the minors to show that he's the Yankees short stop of the future.

"O and if you think for one second that your word is better than Bill Madden , hmm id think again fool."

Who are you talking about? Me or Neyer?

Greg Cohen said...

That's fine Anon #2, but that goes both ways. If you can't comment negatively on a player who is just 23 you also can't comment positively on them.

Anonymous said...

Just because Neyer hasn't seen him or heard of him that does not make him a bad prospect and not the shortstop of the future.

Girardi and the organization seem to very high on Pena.

Anonymous said...

def. talking about Neyer , sorry greg. Just NY writers and commentators really make me sick sometimes, especially in spring when they have no games to write about. I really gotta hand it to the players who have to deal with this scum every day.

Greg Cohen said...

But conversely, just because Bill Madden likes him (now) doesn't mean he will be the future SS of the team. You can't make bold predictions with these prospects. Like I said in the post, you have to just wait and see how things work out.

Anonymous said...

Ill take Girardi's word over Neyer , i think , is that not reasonable. Im pretty sure that girardi and the yankee people, actually know talent when they see it, they do it for a living. Guys like Neyer just write about and comment on what other people do for a living. If girardi and the yanks think highly of him now then im pretty sure hes got something going for him. They are the people who actually see and evaluate players daily.

Brian Danuff said...

Hey guys! I just got home from school (I stayed late for school newspaper).

Anyway, Ramiro Pena needs another year in the minors before coming up. I think he'll start as a Miguel Cairo type of guy (pinch runner/defensive replacement), and then work his way up to starting SS (once Jeter leaves/retires/becomes a DH)

Greg Cohen said...

That's fine, but when has Girardi said that Pena was the Yankees SS of the future?

I don't think anyone within the organization has ever said or implied that they look at Pena as the SS of the future.

Anonymous said...

for me this thing is more about how these writers are ridiculous then pena. That includes madden, neyer, especially wallace matthews if you have ever read him. Honestly they way these people refuse to do any actual research and just write their shitty biased opinions is messed up.
In fact it makes me hope that Newspapers go out of business, which they are.

Anonymous said...

All last season I kept hearing from Bill Maddon how Jason Bartlett was the glue of the Rays team and yet he batted 9th and didn't do much offensively. His defense was what that team valued and he was able to hold his own in the batter's box. That's all the scouts I believe are comparing him to. I'm not sure how old Bartlett is but Pena has the upside and is looking real capable with the glove.

Greg Cohen said...

Anon, I know what you mean. Did you happen to see the paper the day Madden's article was published? Above the article is a picture of Jesus Montero. Apparently the Daily News couldn't tell the difference between the two.

Other anon, you're right, he has a major league glove. There's no denying that. But Bartlett did his .286 last year, and has a career average of .276. If Pena can do that he'll be a very good major leaguer, but can he do that? As of now he hasn't even put up numbers like that in the minors.

Anonymous said...

cano didnt hit well in the minors either. BTW

But yea, these papers are getting pretty sad really. and im not sure if its just here , but NY writers seem to hate the teams they report on. I mean every single article seems to be completly negative. Do these people hate their lives that much or do they just prefer to put a negative spin on every ny sports team.

Seriously if you ever read a paper from another state or listen to another teams radio or tv commentators , they tend to be very loyal and actually root for the team. Where is that in NY, apparently it doesnt exist and im sick of it. I wont to hear the opinions of people who actually want to see NY do well. none of these people seem to be that way. Instead they seem to be doing everythign they can to create negativity because thats what sells.

Greg Cohen said...

Cano his 278/.331/.425 which is significantly better than Pena. But please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying there is no chance he will ever be the Yankees starting SS, Pena could eventually be great.

Liam Gallagher said...

Hola guys. BACK FROM TRYOUTS!!

How is everyone?

Greg Cohen said...

Hey Liam, how's it going? What do you think about Pena?

Liam Gallagher said...

Nothin much. Pena is a beast. But I wouldn't rush him though

Brian Danuff said...

CC! What's up? How did you do at your tryouts?

Brian Danuff said...

Also, did you hear Bernie Williams is going to open up the Hard Rock Cafe at Yankee Stadium by performing there? That's so cool!

Liam Gallagher said...

FREAKEN BAD. My arm was not my arm. Thank god I got a day off. Hows it going B-Boy?

Captain, hows it going?

CC said...

Cool

Brian Danuff said...

Do you think you will make the team?

Liam Gallagher said...

I'm not going to say anything. I'm going to play. See if the coach like me. If he does, then good, doesn't adios for me.(Hopefully)

Liam Gallagher said...

Bye guys.

JoeNYy said...

Hey Greg, where are the pics i sent you? lol jk
I think that this is just another guy that everyone talks about and does absolutely nothing, he won't make much of a splash at the show.

Anonymous said...

There was nothing wrong with Madden's column, he was writing about how the organization and what scouts think about Pena. Alot of the beat writers who been watching every game like Peter Abraham like Pena too.

The scouts Madden where talking too are actually watching Pena play unlike Neyer who is just writing about him without ever seeing him play.

Cool Papa said...

doesn't matter what they put between card board or the paper page. whether he performs on the field is what matters.

more often than not, injuries to experience players set the stage for anyone to get a good look at mlb potential.

crazy sex said...

He's ok.

crazy sex said...

He's also a good fielder.

Jenny Talia said...

I met ramiro Pena at a fed ex kinkos once, he signed my shirt, true story

I <3 Derek said...

Big Deal Jenny Talia, I fucked Derek Jeter last year, he took me to his "crib" as he called it and he was a real thug, but i let him do me, it was fantastic, but he never returns my calls :-*(

Greg Cohen said...

What the hell are you talking about?