"Just ban them right out of the get-go; I think that would be great," Wells said. "No 50-game suspension. Ban them right away, that would stop it in a heartbeat -- especially with the money they are giving out today. It would be incredible if they did that. You wouldn't have to worry about steroids or HGH."
On the topic of Rodriguez, Wells said that the home runs that A-Rod hit during the years he admitted to using performance-enhancing drugs -- from 2001-03 -- should not count. Rodriguez hit 156 homers over that span, but Wells was speaking specifically about the three he served up to Rodriguez.It would hurt the game in the short-term because there would be a lot of great players banned, but I gotta agree with Wells, in the end a lifetime ban for first-time offenders might just be the deterrent needed to put something of an end to this stuff. It will never happy because of the player's association, but it would probably work.
"He claimed he was on the juice so, no, they shouldn't count," Wells said. "I had a high enough ERA anyway. You can't do anything about it. I guess it really wasn't an issue back then."
Wells said that players who have tested positive or admitted to steroid use should not be admitted to the Hall of Fame, regardless of their career statistics. Wells said that while he feels for Clemens, he believes the mounting evidence makes it appear that the seven-time Cy Young Award winner did use performance-enhancing drugs.
"He's denying, and there are cases out there that are pretty strong against him," Wells said. "Until it all comes out, I don't want to be quick to judge, but he's in a mess, really is. When you got Congress and the Feds and everybody down your back, it's crazy."
Wells said he last saw Clemens at a Toby Keith charity golf event in Oklahoma, greeting him with the old Yankees clubhouse nickname of "Eli." He grinned when asked about the reversal in their stances -- during their playing days, Clemens was lauded for his intense workouts while Wells rarely performed more physical conditioning than running and what he called "12-ounce curls."
"For years, he called me 'Eli,'" Wells said. "You know, whatever comes out of Boomer's mouth, 'He lies.' Well, I got payback. Actually, it was great. ... And Roger didn't like it very much, but he came over and said hello.
"You don't want to criticize too quick, but the facts they have in hand, I don't think it looks good for him. You hope, because of what he did for the game of baseball -- it was pretty overwhelming, but was it clean or was it dirty?"
As for stats, it's hard for baseball to say what should and what shouldn't count. But as far as I'm concerned, Roger Maris is still the single-season home run record holder and Hank Aaron still holds the career mark. I don't really care how baseball itself looks at it. This whole era is tainted, and so are the numbers of any player who cheated.
What do you think about lifetime bans and whether these stats should count?
17 Comments:
It's just not practical. We only know about a few high profile players. If you remove everyone from the books (and from baseball) that you know did steroids, you're still left with a bunch of guys probably did steroids, but just didn't get caught.
MLB needs to clamp down on PED usage and take a tough stance, but they've got to do it going forward (for example, from this point on, anyone caught using a banned substance gets a mandatory 1 year suspension without pay).
I don't think anything drastic will happen without serious legal pressure from congress. I believe that MLB and the commissioner have known about steroids for a long time and did little to try and stop it. Bud Selig's claims about what he knew and didn't know about PED use have as much credibility as those of Clemens and Palmiero.
I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but steroids were around long before the "steroid era."
Go read some of the things Tom House said about his experimental use of steroids back in the 70s and how common it was for fellow pitchers to do likewise.
Not to mention greenies.
At this point, I think it would be ridiculous to remove any numbers from the record books, simply because there are still guys using and putting up numbers that will NEVER be caught.
There are 103 guys who we KNOW were using steroids in some form in 2003. Until we know who they are just as a jumping off point, it's absurd to suggest that we need to edit the record books.
Your both crazy. How is it not practical. Its easy to implement, just do it on positive tests and test everyone a couple time a year. Are you kidding? Its probably the MOST practical thing to do.
Who cares who was doing it in the past too. If you want to fix it for th efuture, this is the way to do it. You guys are morally corrupt.
NYSJ,
Yes, steroids have been around for decades, but they became pandemic in baseball from the mid-80's to about 2003.
Jeff,
You're right nothing will happen with out extreme pressure from an outside entity. If the league itself tried to do anything, the player's association would fight it.
Moral Clarity,
Your lack of comprehension is astounding. How can you claim to have a "clean" record book when the story of the steroid era hasn't even been completely told yet?
You want to remove Clemens, Bonds, A-Rod, Manny, etc. from the record book while ignoring the fact that HUNDREDS of players were juicing at the exact same time.
All you're telling people at that point is that it's not cheating if you don't get caught. I'd be fine with putting a literal asterisk next to the names of steroid users in the record book, but striking their numbers completely from the history of baseball and pretending that accomplishes anything is shortsighted and dumb.
If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend this era didn't exist, be my guest.
As for the lifetime ban for a single positive test, ever year of "false positives?" Do they send people to jail for life for stealing a candy bar?
You think you're solving the problem, but you're just creating a whole batch of new ones. Mostly, you're just rewarding the cheaters who never get caught.
Science will always be ahead of testing. Only the truly naive would believe that a lifetime suspension would do anything but create a smarter group of cheaters.
For evidence, I submit the Olympic testing program, which never caught any of the American track athletes who were doping until after the BALCO scandal. They never failed tests.
Greg,
Did you actually read what Tom House said about how many people were "messing around" with steroids in the 70s?
Remember Lyle Alzado? The 70s Pittsburgh Steelers? It's only become a pandemic because it's on the front pages now.
To narrow the impact on baseball to a random 15 year period starting in the late 80s is to ignore that steroids existed in some form long before that.
Jose Canseco didn't invent steroids in 1988. Athletes, including baseball players, have been juicing for decades. It's just more talked about now because of the revelations.
I've read what House said, and yes, I understand that it was in the game well before the mid-80's, but I don't think it was being used nearly as much then as it was 10 years ago.
Either way, the only thing you can fix is the future and I believe harsher penalties will do that. 50 game suspensions are obviously not scaring these guys.
"I don't think it was being used nearly as much as it was 10 years ago."
Ten years ago, we didn't think ANYBODY was using steroids. Neither of us have ANY idea how widespread steroid use was in years past, just like we still don't know truly how widespread the problem is today.
Fact is, there still is no HGH test in baseball, so how do we know players aren't doing that now?
A lifetime ban isn't just impractical, it's unfair. Look at JC Romero, who I actually believe tested positive based on his own stupidity and not an intent to cheat.
You going to throw him out of baseball for life because two nutritionists happened to be wrong in telling him a supplement was legal?
Nobody who ever uses steroids considers the consequences, because nobody ever thinks they're going to get caught. Olympic athletes know they are going to be suspended for TWO FULL YEARS if they test positive and still find ways around it.
I'm almost starting to feel like this entire thing is a waste of time, just like the "War on Drugs" in America. Nothing is going to stop this freight train now. Do you even have any idea how impossible it would be to impose a lifetime ban? For one thing, the appeals process would become much longer and drawn out at great expense.
Would it be worth it to remove only the guys stupid enough to get caught? That's just so people feel better about themselves, but solves nothing.
The Babe is still the home run king to me.
All I'm saying is that the penalties should be harsher. A year ban is a good start. I don't think lifetime ban are impractical at all, but we won't see them because the PA won't allow it.
The penalties are already harsher than any other sport in America.
But people continue to cheat. It's obviously not scaring enough people from using.
Nobody ever uses steroids thinking about the consequences, because everybody always thinks they're smart enough to beat the system.
It's a moot point anyway, until they get an HGH test that is reliable, and even then the cheaters will be ahead of the curve.
You think it can be stopped, when evidence suggests that not even a two-year ban will stop people from trying to get an edge.
As for a lifetime ban, it's a pipe dream that will never happen. Best use your energy somewhere else.
All i can feel pretty certain about is that Pete Rose should be allowed in the Hall of Fame.
The solution is to ban players for life if they are caught from this point on. If the Players' Association whines about it, they are obviously promoting drug use. It's like saying, "If you input a lifetime ban, than our players won't have the option to juice!"
I totally agree with that, Will.
The issue is economics and always has been. If you want to stop any negative behavior you have to attack the root causes not the symptoms. MLB openly promoted the behavior (see 1998) and owners openly rewarded the behavior (think A-Rods Texas contract). Until that changes you will never "clean" the game up.
As long as avg, and slugging % and OPS are used to determine a given players worth, you will have cheaters. No amount of punitive action will deter cheaters and that is scientific fact. People cheat to reap rewards. Remove the rewards and you change the behavior.
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