The Bombers dropped a 7-3 decision to Boston Tuesday night at Yankee Stadium, giving the Red Sox five straight wins over the Yankees - the first time since 1985 that Boston has opened the season series with five consecutive wins over its storied rival.I've heard it from a lot of fans myself, whether it was on this site or other sites, fans are growing tried of Girardi. And while I'm no defender of Girardi, is it fair to throw the blame on him? After all, he hasn't even had a full team for more than a few games since becoming Yankees manager. Last year A-Rod and Jeter missed time, Posada and Wang missed most of the season, and this year they've already lost Posada, A-Rod, Bruney, Nady, Marte, and Ransom. Could any manager or team survive those kind of losses, especially in the AL East? I don't think so.
That April, Yogi Berra was fired as manager after just 16 games. Could Joe Girardi be headed for the same fate if the Yankees don't turn things around quickly? Some fans seemed to be hoping as much, shouting "We Want Torre!" in the ninth inning.
I will always be a big fan of Joe Torre, and I think Yankees fans in general don't give him nearly enough credit for what he was able to accomplish in his 12 seasons here. He took teams that had major injuries, poor starts, no pitching, etc, and every year took them to the postseason. I also still believe that he should never have been pushed aside in the first place and should still be managing this team. However, I don't think Girardi should be fired any time soon. If they miss the postseason this year he should go. The only way I'd want to see him fired sooner is if the Yankees are close to full strength and are still 10 or more games out by the All-Star break. Until then the Yanks shouldn't make a change. Now, if the Yankees wanted to make some changes with the coaching staff, I'm all for that.
What do you guys think, should he stay or should he go?
45 Comments:
My God its May 6th and 26 games have past with injuries to ARod, Wang, Nady, Bruney, now Posada. How is this Girardi's fault? Let him finish the year and lets see what the end result is. last year, same story, injuries. He should be judged with a healthy full roster, together, for some time.
As you can see in the post above, I agree with you.
I don't think Girardi should go... but I would prefer Bobby V over him... although I don't really understand what Girardi's been doing with the pen.
I couldn't agree with you more Greg.
i would keep him until the All Star break at least... we need to get everyone healthy to really see how good/bad he is.
i think a big part of it is that we all loved Torre so much.
It's not Girardi who should go (not yet, anyway) but Brian Cashman. His acquisitions in the last five years have been horrible and despite having the crown jewels at his disposal, he has palpably failed to assemble a strong enough squad for the 2009 season. I know the injuries aren't his fault but the lack of backup most certainly is. How much longer can this guy be given a free pass? Everything he touches turns to crap (ie CC, AJ and Mark .198 Teixeira).
I think Dave Eiland should go. It's the pitching that is doing so bad.
Loved Torre? Maybe, but it was time for a change, about 2 years past time.
Girardi isn't doing a bad job. He lost his C, 3B, RF, #2 starting pitcher and both guys who were supposed to bridge the gap to Mo. It's not his fault that the bullpen is self-destructing, they should be much better. I have minor issues with him, but get those guys back, have at least 2 relievers pitch consistently and you can judge Girardi properly. Right now, his hands are tied.
Well I never actually liked the Girardi hire to begin with, but that said, it's too early to consider anything drastic like firing him with a .500 record on May 6.
I will say that a lot of his roster decisions have been head-scratchers, from his love affair with Brett Gardner to his continued use of Cody Ransom and Angel Berroa, seemingly erratic bullpen strategy and failure to carry a long reliever.
Still, Girardi doesn't throw any pitches, and he's not to blame for their massive failure w/ RISP.
I will say this, I don't know how long he's going to make it with his temperment having the deal with the media. That whole thing about not understanding why biographies are even necessary struck me as particularly odd. He seems out of touch with the world in which he's living.
Hey Bruce, you can't complain about Cashman's free agent signings after 26 games, that's ridiculous. I may have an issue with the length of the contracts, but that has nothing to do with 2009. Cashman signed a world-class starter, another starter who can actually be better on occasion, and one of the best hitters in baseball. All 3 are relatively young, not the 'on the downside' ballplayers the Yankees used to sign. All of baseball was jealous of those moves. Give it time. The temperature hasn't even hit 70 yet.
Girardi doesn't have a complete team but he's still lost a bunch of games by simply over managing. Even with what he has I have not seen any of the kind of baseball he's promised. He's a poor evaluator of talent and his coaching choices suck. I think Joe has been given a longer leash from fans and the media than the man he replaced without haveing to show half the competency or any sort of accomplishment.
Now do I think he should go, yes but not just for the reasons above but for the shock it would send to the players that no one is safe and this team is not the Buena Vista Social Club of the AL East.
The chant should be "Fire Cashman"
Joe Torre era should of ended after the collapse against the Red Sox. Cashman should of been fired too.
The last 5 games against the Red Sox is evidence how Theo Epstein is taking Cashman to school.
This team misses George Steinbrenner, Cashman is getting a pass its a joke. Its amazing how Stick still works for the yankees but Cashman never utilizes him.
I have not lost faith in Girardi--yet.
But is it me or does he make some truly bizarre decisions sometimes.
There is a great article on switch pitcher Pat Venditte in Espn.com Life of Reilly. The righty has a 90 mph fastball, a curve and a nice change. The lefty comes sidearm and has a murderous slider and a change. He's a five-pitch pitcher!
Cashman gets bailed out using Steinbrenner's money. When Cashman got full control of the player moves he was going on about how they were going to have a strong farm system and devolop players.
Look at this offseason if he didn't have the money to sign CC and AJ his pitching staff would of been a joke. Cashman is a average GM that gets bailed out by the steinbrenner money.
I mean Cashman thought Kei Igawa was better than Ted Lilly.
I have 2 posts on my blog calling for Girardi to go.
http://nyyu.blogspot.com
Right... cause the Red Sox would still be close to being as good as they are now without Tek, Youkilis, and Bay.
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Lowell
Drew
Bailey
VanEvery
Green
Kottaras.
I am scared of their depthiness!
Hire Gregg Maddux as pitching coach.
If Joe Torre was making half of these decisions most of you would have been screaming for his head. I just don't understand the leeway for a manager who can't even take a team with a 200 million dollar payroll to the playoffs.
If Bobby Cox can manage the Braves for life after only one title, then Torre should have been the skipper till he dropped dead.
there was bad blood between the steins and torre. they wanted him out. the team just needs to get healthy. joe g. won 89 games last year with hideki and jorge for most of the year, plus wanger
If Bobby Cox had the Yankees teams and Torre had the Braves... Torre would not have won 4 World Series... but Cox would have...
CASHMAN NEEEEDS TO GO!
Mike: Thank you, I know now to never visit your blog.
Danny: It's been one 89 win season and 26 games! He's not getting too much leeway. Everyone needs to get a grip, if the Yanks are still playing .500 ball in July, and look hopelessly lost, then start calling for the guys head, but seriously, the overreaction in Yankeeland is astonishing.
get buck showalter somewhere in the organization again he set up the team to win in 96
I agree it's too early but I do feel Girardi sometimes over manages the game.
Last night why cant you juts leave Joba in one for one more out (I know the pitch count is high but he was still smooth and had command)
Now you have Veras for solely the
7th and Coke for just the 8th.
If the hitters havent gotten us on the board yet then maybe we bring out Mo for the 9th and go for broke.
I dont like how he manages too much to get a matchup. I feel he'll put more confidence into his guys if he lets them go after batters now and then, matchup or not.
Sometimes you can be OVERprepared.
I don't think it's overpepardness, it's just overthinking. Poor man's Tony Larussa?
Anon: I think with Joba last night he was more of a slave to the pitch count then looking for a matchup. Either way though I agree with you. Joba was pitching effortlessly at that point.
We need a good young catcher for the future, but it will cost us a good young player from our system or ML team. There must be a team out there that has one, yanks could in theory offer hughes, or ajax, or melky/gardner, some minor league pitchers. Cashman better be looking into this situation because Jorge is getting fragile and not any younger.
That is what Montero/Romine are for.
I disagree.
I don't think its the injuries hurting the Yankees. The lineup continues to deliver runs, and the fielding isn't blowing games. Its mostly the pitching. That the Yankees have to go to the pen almost every game by the 6th inning is inexcusable with this rotation. Most of the starting pitchers are proven performers, so either they have been effected by the moon, or they are not getting the corrective coaching they need.
I definitely think its time for Dave Eiland to go. But unless this team wakes up in the next couple weeks I also think its time for Girardi to go. His management of the bullpen has made no sense, and Teixeira's problems are similar to those of the starting rotation - inexplicable lack of performance - that smacks of coaching (or lack of it) to me. Girardi is ultimately in charge of what goes on in the player's heads. Anyone can pick a starting line up from a roster, its the intangibles that make the manager. On those there are symptoms everywhere that Girardi is not delivering.
I agree with Will.
Dave Eiland was a minor league pitching coach and should have stayed in the minors. There are way too many pitchers on this team that are not attacking the strike zone and walking way too many batters. pitchers with a lot of talent.
Girardi should be on this man like white on rice, and should be looking for other candidates while doing so.
First, I t was Torre's time to go, the Yankees where stagnant and had not won in 6 years! Torre fell into the trap of all great men he thought he was above the team and that he could just play the people he knew squashing the youth, which is what one the 4 World series in the first place.
Looking at Girardi he is managing scared so not to lose and you do not ever win doing that. It is time to find a disciplinarian to cut all the crap in the clubhouse and the field. A great argument for the demise of Girardi using FIVE pitchers in a game when Two would have been just fine, he overuses the bullpen exposing the one week player that leads people believe that the bullpen stinks. Veras looked good and so did Coke those two should be able to pitch four innings! Why take Joba out after striking out 8 batters in a row? Playing Johnny Damon in the field instead of Gardner? Having 13 Pitchers on a roster when you have 0 bench? Not asking for Shelley Duncan to give you pop from the right side? Not insisting that Nady go on the 60 day DL so a 40 man roster spot can get opened. Not bunting to get runners over when you need ONE run! Not stealing on Boston, who just got torched by the Devil Dogs, frigin guy set a MLB record for steals in one game. He is in a word "Clueless". And will be gone by All-Star if this team is serious about winning, Pena would be a good interim coach.
I, too, am with Will.
Girardi can get a few more weeks, but I really expect very little from him, even if our team gets/stays healthy. Fire the coaches first, with the notable excpetion of Pena. Then if necessary, dump Girardi, too. He appears lost.
Mike
fire Joe G and see how fast some rival team will pick him up.
There's so much crap you just said there...
He did not overuse the bullpen, if anything, it was good some of them got some work in(D-Rob,Melancon).
It was good Coke didn't go 2 innings cause now he's available for today and tomorrow.
Damon is playing because Gardner is not better than Gardner. Damon/Matsui playing is better than Gardner/whoever else playing.
Nady's not on the 60 day DL because it's probable he'll return before then.
The stealing base thing is meh. Who stole those bases? A FAST TEAM. We are not a fast team so there's no point in comparing us to the Rays. Our only comparable player was Gardner, who could not steal because he rightfully so, did not play. There's no point to putting Gardner out there right now.
If you're serious about making an argument, make sense.
I am tired of Girardi. His mix and matching with the bullpen is ridiculous. I hate how he babys his entire pitching staff. He doesnt let them go out there and finish what they started. I hate how too hate how he is infatuated with the most mediocore talent, like a ransom or a coke. His decisions 9/10 are mind boggling and leaves me cursing at the tv set every night. I liked the way Pena managed the game after Girardi was kicked out. He has too much faith in his players which blinds him when it comes to there faults. I expected him to light a fire under the yankees ass after what I saw him do with the marlins....but he has not delivered.
He needs to go the sooner the better. You can blame injuries but the Yankees still have a bomb squad with or without arod. There are no excuses he has cost us a few games with his overmanaging. He needs to go! Get the f*ck out Joe you suck!
Greg we should be evaluating whether or not cashman should be fired.I say yes
I wanted him as mgr, and yes I'm ready for him to be gone now, but the better question is, WHO DO YOU REPLACE HIM WITH? Anyone worth a damn is taken, so I ask who?
ABSOLUTELY Brian Cashman should be the one let go, but so should Girardi. My neighbor is an A's fan. He told me when Girardi was hired that I was going to be in for some bad times. "He's terrible. You guys are going no where." I told my neighbor he was an idiot. Now I've come to see what he meant. Girardi is a better broadcaster then a manager. Cashman is a horrific GM and should resign immediately. He has been outclassed by Epstein for years now!
You guys might remember that I, too, was in favor of hiring Girardi. After watching him last year and this, I think it's only a matter of time before he's gone. And I really don't care if a rival hires him. I'd hire Pena for at least the remainder of this season, and then see who might be available next year(keeping Pena in the mix, for sure).
And, last but not least, the name I've been holding off on mentioning--The Dweeb himself, Cashman!!! Henceforth, I will call him The Dweeb. More on that sad case later. For now, let's just say that his short-comings have been evident for quite a while. We are in trouble, no matter how young the season.
I sure as hell haven't given up yet, but we're in dire trouble and our current "leaders" have no clue--no clue at all.
All we can do is cross our fingers until the change comes.
Mike
Of course, the liar, like all news media, Feinsaid writes about ONLY Girardi and not Cashman. Cashman is 100% the culprit but the Catholic news mafia wont write the truth. Nothign new under the sun.
Mike-
We were thinking of the same person the other day.
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I think Girardi needs to go. Realistically, I place more blame on Eiland, but I don't think that firing the pitching coach will be enough to light a fire under these guys' asses. I live on the west coast, so I don't get to see every game, but the games I have watched, the Yanks seem to have no spark. As a few people mentioned above Girardi just doesn't seem to have the motivational skills to be leading this team.
I'm in Utah tonight and just got to the game in the 9th.
I wish you could number all the "anonymous" so we know who is who.
That said, the "anonymous" who said it was time for Torre to go; and that he was above the team; and he hadn't won in 6 years; and he was squashing the youth etc etc. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Look at the LA team and how many young players are playing and winning for Joe. Look at all the young players Joe played after the last WS win. Just because they didn't turn out to be Jeter, Rivera, etc didn't mean he didn't play them or try them out, they just weren't impact players.
And while I'm at it, if you bring your team to the post season 12 straight years, you deserve to go out on your own terms. Especially when many of the trades, free agents, and rookies don't pan out. Torre should have never been fired, released, or given a BS contract they knew he would reject. The Yankee brass screwed that one just like ther're messing up with the fans today. They continue to take fans and employees for granted.
Girardi should not be fired at this point. Like Torre in many of the later years, he has not had the talent, or a set linup all year as well as all the key injuries.
I am a big fan of Torre and firmly believe in his approach. The Yankees broke up the successful coaching talent surrounding Torre after 2003 and continued to break up the staff through the years after that. Girardi could have used Bowa but either he (Girardi) or the Yankee brass did not want Bowa back. No, let Girardi finish the year. Then he can watch Torre in the post season again in LA.
Yep, Scott. We had the same guy in mind.
Mike
Sorry, i don't agree that it is the manager's fault, however, yankees need a change and fast. Sorry but injuries can not be an excuse with this team. Joe must go!
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