With Joba being forced to either skip starts, or move out of the rotation all together it certainly hurts the 2009 Yankees chances of making the postseason. A rotation of CC, AJ, Pettitte, Mitre and who the hell knows, probably won't cut it in this division. So obviously this is a very tough decision for the Yankees to make. Risk the arm of what could be their ace for the next 10+ years, or ignore the whole innings limit and just do what's best for this year's team.
I personally believe that Joba's future is very important, and I would be very concerned if Joba was allowed to throw 60 or 70 innings more than he did last year. The last thing the Yankees need is for Joba to have elbow or shoulder surgery next season and miss 12 months.
The reason I bring this up is because last week John Harper of the Daily News had an article that contained a very interesting detail regarding Joba's teammates, and his "rules."
The Yankee players are very much aware of the situation. A couple of them rolled their eyes at the mention of it Wednesday, and made it clear they think the front office is being overprotective of Chamberlain.
I know this will probably reinforce the feelings of those who think all of this is foolish and unnecessary, but should it? These guys are ballplayers, not doctors, what do they really know about this stuff? Obviously they're entitled to their opinions but I think those opinions should (and will) be ignored by the powers that be.
Two questions for you guys:
1) Do you think the opinions of these players should matter to Cashman, Girardi, and whomever else is making decisions about Joba?
2) If Joba were to be moved into the pen who do you think the Yankees should move into the rotation?
Two questions for you guys:
1) Do you think the opinions of these players should matter to Cashman, Girardi, and whomever else is making decisions about Joba?
2) If Joba were to be moved into the pen who do you think the Yankees should move into the rotation?
38 Comments:
Greg that y we need another arm and i do believe we will get one.
Obviously I think they have to get another arm. Of course, we all thought that before the trade deadline but we'll see what they do coming up. I believe at some point they will get another starter.
But if they were not able to get a starter, I would say that they would have to plan ahead and stretch Hughes back out and put him in the rotation because they don't have anyone else ready.
I certainly do not want to take Hughes out of the pen. But I also don't want to see Joba get injured by pitching too many innings.
I'm still baffled that they didn't get a pitcher at the trade deadline despite the fact that they can still get one down the road.
Hey, I read Sidney Ponson was released - I'm sure Cash would want to sign him to a multi-year deal! lol
Its not just Joba rules. Hughes is on an innings limit too this year and wont reach it because he is in the bullpen. And it will be in the same situation next year if Hughes is starting.
I never understood that the media always focus on "Joba rules" but dont realize all the other young pitchers in the yankee organization are on innings limit. The yanks are doing the right thing. You seen the list of pitchers 25 under who got abused, I believe Verducci wrote about it.
Just look at Cole Hamels he jumped his innings by a lot including the postseason, and he is not the same pitcher this year.
Anon, you're right, many many pitchers are on innings limits and the ones who aren't usually suffer.
And yes, the Yankees clearly need another arm, which is why I'm so annoyed that they couldn't land one at the deadline.
The yankee players could be just rolling there eyes because the media keeps asking the questions about "Joba rules"
Or a lot of the yankee players are old and towards the end of there career and want to win a world series this year. They know they need Chamberlain to win. They probably dont care about Joba career 5 years down the road. I applaud the yankee organization for doing the right thing with Joba.
Obviously the rules are frustrating. But the studies have been pretty conclusive when you increase the inning from one year to the next by the a certain amount then the risk for injury jumps like crazy. By next year Joba will be able to throw the 200 innings we needs and the rules will no longer exist.
So he'll hit whatever his limit this year and then goes into the bullpen. (or get 20 innings away from his limit and then goes to the bullpen)
No doubt cashman gets 1 or 2 pitchers off the waiver wire depending on if they throw hughes back to the rotation because his innings are too low.
Mel Stottlemeyer 96 innings the first year, 291 the next.
Ron Guidry: 16 innings the first year. 210 the next
Stop babying pitchers.
Yeah check their minor league innings during the same year.
The league is also different now.
The pitchers are trained differently from little league on.
Also their is more stress per pitch now then their ever was with every game being televised.
Off topic but David Robertson has 40 strikeouts in 29 innings pitch. That is great.
Robertson K/9 is 12.41 that is higher then Michael Wuertz and Daniel Bard.
Robertson is still very young he was drafted only 2 years ago but he has potential to be a very good setup man in a couple of years.
I think it would be easier obviously if there was a cushion in September, but things just aren't that easy.
The Red Sox went well over the innings limit they wanted to with Lester last year - especially when you consider the playoffs. The Phillies probably pushed Cole Hamels too hard last year as well. Both guys came out of the gates pitching awfully this year, but without them their teams wouldn't do what they did.
Joba has a little bigger body so I think he could handle a bigger innings limit. Obviously you do draw a line somewhere, but I would make him a 5 inning pitcher before a reliever.
1) The Players opinions should definitly matter, they are a part of the team and deserve the best chance to win!
I cant answer the second question because, nobody should be moved into the rotation, espechially Hughes and Aceves...we need our Bullpen!
Now I think someone said something about Cole Hamels not having a great year after pitching so many innings last season...guess what guys, Cole Hamels was the reason the Phillies won a thing called the World Series!!
It is true that some pitchers get injured at a young age, but there are plenty of them that do not! The Yankees will never win if they keep having this Scared mentality.
Anybody at anytime could get injured, that doesnt mean they shouldn't play!
Brian Cashman didn't even get a 5th starter for this team, and we are gona take Joba out of the rotation? And then have what...CC, AJ, Pettite...and who else???
If the Yankees are serious about winning a World Series this year with the Veteran team that we have...then this decision is verry easy. We are 0-8 against Boston, and strugle against the Angels...therefor we need the best team we can possibly put on the field! We havn't won anything in 8 years guys! Stop always concentrating on the future and try and concentrate on the Here and Now...because we all know the great Captain(Jeter) aint gettin any younger and he needs another ring!
Well, if Bruney would earn his keep (that's a big if) and pitch well enough to set up Rivera what do you guys think about Joba and Hughes splitting games thereby limiting both pitcher's innings?
Just a thought
The players opinions should not matter. Both Damon and Posada said that he belongs in the bullpen. And they both now say they changed there minds Joba is a starter. Damon is now comparing Joba to Roger Clemens.
Not a bad idea Steve S. I haven't heard that mentioned too many times, but it's not a bad idea at all.
lol, You fans never cease to amaze me...Brian Bruney is awful!! Hughes has saved this bullpen and instead of him staying in that role, we will put Bruney in it...wow!!
People just dont realize that if we kept this team the way it is...we could win it all but if we start to experiment at the end of the year...its basicly suicide!!
Matthew, he did say it was a big if. Bruney was lights-out earlier this season and the end of last year, there is a chance he can regain that form.
The thing is the Yankees cannot risk Joba's future for one season, and likely, they're not going to.
Anon, Robertson has the stuff to be a great reliever. He just needs to limit his walks, and spot some of his pitches a little better. Both of which will come with experience.
Then have fun losing in the 1st round like we do every year lately!
Its astonishing how the Yankees baby their players and you fans don't even care!
Bruney pitched very well in Chicago. He went 1.1 ip scorless, Girardi then over extended him and tried to get another inning from him. Bruney is a short reliever he can only go 1 inning.
Bruney stuff is still there, his velocity has been very good. The problem has been his command. He falls into bad counts like 2-0 or 3-1 and throws a fastball right down the middle and it gets crushed.
His control looked sharp in Chicago. So hopefully he turns it around. The old Bruney will be a great addition to the bullpen.
Im all for Bruney geting it together but I think realisticly...
Bruney has never been a great pitcher for more then a few months if that...since coming off the DL, hes been the Yankees worst pitcher out of the pen...The Yankees can not count on him in a big spot time after time, espechially in October...The bullpen the way it is with Hughes and MO, has been the unbeatable combination that we have been lookin for, so why, why would we mess with that right when its starting to gel and win us ballgames?
Im realy not trying to be rude, this is just a game and its all in good fun to debate so please dont take offence to my arguments about the Yankees...
but anyway, Do some of you even watch the games everyday?
Cause Bran Bruney just about gives me a heart attack when ever hes in the game!
Why dont you guys look at King Felix Hernandez has been doing in his carear as far as innings go...hes 23 or 24 and will pitch 200 innings this year!!
it all depends on the athlete, some get hurt, some dont...but you cant baby them just cause your scared of injury!!
Matthew: No offense taken whatsoever. It is just a game! I've been following the Yanks since 1965 and yes, I do get to watch just about every game. I realize Bruney is a risk and has not been consistent for quite some time. It was a big IF when I suggested that idea. I'm not necessarily sold on limiting innings because someone is young. I think it depends on the pitcher. Did you know that Ed Walsh (Chicago) pitched 464.0 innings in 1908? I do feel players today are babied simply because of the investment, not due to any physical restrictions!
Getting back to the initial question: I don't believe the Yankees have the answer in the organization right now. Loof for Cashmen to sign someone off waivers or make some kind of deal for another starter. IMHO
Felix Hernandez in 2005 pitched around 80 innings in the minors before getting called up. Hernandez pitched 149 innings in 2004 in the minors. He pitched over 300 innings in the minors.
Joba in 2007 between the majors and minors pitched 112 innings which is the most he has ever pitched. Last year he pitched around 100. And in college the most he has pitched was around 90 innings.
The yankees rushed him through the minors because they needed him. Joba is still a very inexperienced pitcher. Last year he only pitched around 100 innings. To jump him from 100 to 200 when the most he has ever pitch was 112 innings would be foolish.
Bottom line Cashman needed to trade for another pitcher like Jarrod Washburn. This problem is really Cashman's fault.
Matthew, have you seen what happens to a lot of these guys who go way over their innings from the year before? They usually end up on the shelf for 8-12 months.
As for Felix, the only year he had a major jump was when he was 17, and it might now have been as drastic as it looks because I have no idea what he had done that year prior to being signed.
Anyway, since '03 he's a perfect example of someone who was developed properly. In 2004 he threw a total of 149.1 innings.
The next year he threw 172 between AAA and the majors, and in '06 it went up to 191. Joba has never come close to those kind of innings, and it's not because the Yankees are babying him.
Anon, sorry I didn't see your comment about Felix before I posted mine, we were obviously thinking the same thing.
Did you or did you not know what the doctor was injecting you with for the last 10 years? If the answer is "no", then you have no credibility discussing the medical treatment of another player.
A片下載的成人影片下載的免費A片下載的日本A片的情色A片的免費A片的成人影城的成人電影的線上A片的A片免費看
米蘭情趣用品的情趣用品的情趣的飛機杯的自慰套的充氣娃娃的AV女優.按摩棒的跳蛋的潤滑液的角色扮演的情趣內衣的自慰器的穿戴蝴蝶的變頻跳蛋的無線跳蛋的電動按摩棒的情趣按摩棒的
Just switch Joba and Hughes....Seems like the perfect solution to me. Joba can do just as well if not better then Hughes in the bullpen and I think Hughes would be fine as a starter. Problem Solved.
Forget this innings nonsense. Look at King Felix Hernandez!
Anon, Felix hasn't had a significant jump in innings since he was 17-years-old. The Mariners handled him pretty much perfectly since then.
Jon Lester
2007- 63.0 INNINGS PITCHED
2008- 210.1 INNINGS PITCHED
Tim Lincecum
2007- 146.1 INNINGS PITCHED
2008- 227.0 INNINGS PITCHED
Jake Peavy
2002- 97.2 INNINGS PITCHED
2003- 194.2 INNINGS PITCHED
Jake Peavy threw 80.1 innings in the minors in '02.
Jon Lester also threw 90 minor-league innings in 2007.
And Lincecum threw 31.0 minor league innings in '07. So none of the jumps you pointed out are that significant.
sorry, i got them from mlb.com, i thought the INP, were for what ever they did for that whole year...but i guess they dont include the minor league stats.
Nah they don't. A good site for that is TheBaseballCube.com. They show pretty much everything.
thanks, I'll have to check that out.
Post a Comment