From Dugout Central's Chuck Johnson (Johnson is a former account exec with the Double A Eastern League and a longtime SABR member):
Friday night, I went to the AFL’s website to see who the probable pitchers were. I was pretty juiced to find that none other than Philip Hughes was scheduled to toe the rubber for the visiting “Javs”. Arriving early as usual, but without the normal concession or potty stops before getting to our seats, I stopped by the visitors’ bullpen to watch Hughes’ pre-game warm-up.
Man, does he have good stuff! It is unexplainable for me to understand why his record is what it is. His ‘pen was as impressive a session as any I’ve seen all year, and I’ve seen some good ones. His two-seamer moves as much as any I’ve seen. From 20 feet behind and elevated up from the stands, the movement was clearly noticeable. His slider was tight and sharp, and he snapped off a few major league curveballs, although he didn’t command it as well as the fastball and slider.
OK, back to the game. Hughes ended up pitching two and a third innings, throwing five and two thirds worth of pitches (72), with just 40 being strikes. I wrote in my game notes, “hits target on fastball, not so much on breaking stuff.” I think he just needs a different mind-set. His ball moves so much he probably just needs to adjust his target. Instead of throwing where he wants the ball to start, he should throw to where he wants it to end up. This is how Greg Maddux pitches, even though he never threw as hard as Hughes does, Maddux was at least average with his fastball when he was younger, (90-ish), yet learned early on how to manage his stuff. Hughes has a far better overall repertoire than does the more publicized Joba Chamberlain, and being that he’s nine months younger, I feel he has a much higher ceiling and will have a longer and better career.I will start off by saying that while I agree Hughes has a bright career ahead of him, I don't think it will be better than Joba's. But to be honest, this isn't the first time I've heard this from baseball people so you never know.
However, I do think we should all realize that this is what baseball people, you know, the experts? think about Hughes. This is why Brian Cashman is still getting call after call seeing if Hughes is available.
Also, for those worrying about, or just interested in his velocity, it was reported by Peter Abraham and Kevin Kernan (on XM radio) last week that Hughes has gotten his velocity up and has been throwing 95 MPH in the AFL.
Some will say that I'm just drinking the Phil Hughes Kool-Aid, and that's fine, those people are entitled to their opinions. But his stuff is there, it's just a matter of putting it all together.
23 Comments:
I completely agree. You just don't give up on a 21-22 year old kid that has great stuff. Everyone needs coaching, some more that others and I think Hughes, with the proper coaching, can become a good, if not great, MLB pitcher.
I agree with rahul. I see Hughes as a good, not great, pitcher. Glad to see his velocity improving. I'm not giving up on him, but I'd really like to see the same impressive pitcher who no-hit the Rangers in '07 (until he came out with a strained hammy).
Trade him, trade him for Tom Glavine or Greg Maddux, we need veteran pitchers.
^ you're an idiot
Too bad some people have no patience with 22 year old pitchers...
Eliezer,
Have you learned about the yankees getting veteran pitchers. Remember Johnson, he stunk and Kevin Brown sucked with us. I say STAY AWAY FROM VETERAN PICHERS.
Greg,
I say don't trafe him because he will be a better pitcher when he gets older and don't forget, he's only 22 so you can't expect alot from him yet, especialy after all the injerys he has had.
I agree Greg, just look at Kazmire and Santana, you cannot trade away the possibility of having one of the future good arms in the game. I think a lot of the failure in his development is lack of a good pitching mentor to help him work his stuff out and that is my main knock against Eiland.
Jesus, can anyone take a joke this days. Life goes on after missing the playoffs you know, LOL.
i'm the one with the idiot comment. my bad eliezer, i thought you were being serious
Me too,sorry eliezer.
Hughes will never be more than a #4 on the Yankees. His stuff has regressed. He's physically brittle and mentally he's SoCal Charmin soft. I would gladly trade him in a package if we could get back an outstanding YOUNG player (like Adrian Gonzalez for instance) who fits one of our needs.
Hughes does not throw a slider, he ditched it in faovr of a cutter, which can look hard-sliderish...
Nevertheless, if I'm going to put much stock into what this alleged baseball insider has to say, I would expect him to at least know or be able to recognize what the kid is throwing.
As far as Hughes is all of a sudden throwing 95... That screams of fast gun, which would come as no surprise for a fall/winter league that is trying to seduce customers any way they can.
Anon #1 so your master plan is, trade away a promising young player on a premier position for a young talented player on a retirement position, even when there is a better FA option at 1B. Makes no sense at all, I'm glad you're not running this team (I hope you’re not Cash).
Anon #2 Hughes was going to try to replace the slider with a cutter, but do you know if this actually took place or if they decided to go back to the slider after he struggled with the cutter? As far as him throwing 95 or not I don’t know but when Lester started throwing harder (mid 90’s) last off season people started questioning the radar gun and look what happened.
It's gonna take more than some scouts report on how Hughes threw in an AFL bullpen warmup session to open eyes. If your hard off of that then it sounds more like drinking Phil Hughes Semen, not Kool-aid. Movement this movement that, we coulda had Johan Santana and the guy has a 7.71 ERA in Fall League. Why doesn't that speak as loudly to you Phil Hughes loving/wishing this was 96 all over again fans?
Eliezer,
Hughes was throwing a cutter toward the end of the season, but that doesn't mean he has ditched the slider all together. He could be working on both, that's what winter ball is for, but you know that.
It's his mental attitude that concerns me. I see him cracking, but who knows? If we could get a good YOUNG player for him (don't know who, but I'm not the GM), I'd do it.
Mike
JMiller,
This post has nothing to do with Johan Santana. That ship has sailed, people have to move on.
This is about right now and the immediate future. It's about people who want to trade him for lesser players than Johan, and people who are ready to give up on a 22 year old kid.
And he has a 4.50 ERA in the AFL. (not that it's good, but it's not 7.71.)
Semen? Hard on? Miller, what's with all the penis references? Do you have some repressed feelings you're trying to let us know about?
I would have traded him for Santana too, Santana is the best pitcher in the game. Right now I'd only trade Hughes for a young ace type pitcher.
Greg, actually your post was specifically addressed to Phil Hughes haters, so that is where I find my common ground in being addressed. I dont like Phil Hughes because he is not and never will be as good as Johan. So you can go sail your own ship on that one and pretend like it wasn't one of the dumbest moves ever for as long as you like. I'll be here to remind you of it, everytime I see Hughes with an era over 7.
And no marc, no repressed feelings here, I can't help it if I feel as a fan that the yankee brass is 'doing' me in the 'ass' the last 4 years though.
"Greg, actually your post was specifically addressed to Phil Hughes haters, so that is where I find my common ground in being addressed."
Ahh, fair enough. But still, this wasn't about the Johan trade or validating not making it.
"I dont like Phil Hughes because he is not and never will be as good as Johan. So you can go sail your own ship on that one and pretend like it wasn't one of the dumbest moves ever for as long as you like."
When I say the ship has sailed, I just mean it's over and done with. You can't change the past.
As for the dumbest moves ever, after year one it does look like it was a bad trade, but we're not going to know how bad (or good) it was for several years. Johan could get injured, Phil Hughes could (like many other young pitchers) get better and better with age, or Phil Hughes could continue to struggle and Santana can be the Mets ace for years to come. A lot can happen in this game.
jmiller
I have a little knowledge about the Santana trade to NY that most don't, the Twins didn’t want to trade him to NY or any AL team, as for NY the only way we were going to land him was:
a. Joba, Montero (/Jackson), Kennedy and Cabrera
b. Hughes, Cano, Kennedy and Cabrera
What they preferred was Joba, Hughes and Cano for him, they asked similar players from Boston to send him there; they wanted the top 3 prospects plus others. Now I don't know where most people here think it was a Hughes for Santana deal or anything close to that (maybe from the never wrong ESPN insider guys, LOL). That’s why both teams pulled out of the Santana race.
Oh and funny that you mention Santana, did you know that at age 22 (playing in A ball) he was a rule 5 draft player because his team at the time thought he wasn't going to cut it, they said he didn’t have the mental toughness to pitch in the big leagues, sounds familiar.
Eliezer, I have heard people mention that the Twins didn't want to trade him to an AL team at all, and I've also heard the rumors that the deal on the table that the Yankees turned down was Hughes, Melky and Kennedy.
As you mentioned the trade rumor that most are aware of (Hughes, Kennedy, and Melky)did come from ESPN. I'm just wondering where you heard/read the news about the offers you mentioned. I'm not doubting them, I'm just very interested.
Greg
Its a family member that I get it from.
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