Just so you know before you start reading, this SI story is mostly about tipping pitches and not steroids.
From Ted Keith (hat-tip to WasWatching.com):
I know as a fan, this bothers me a lot. But to me it's more interesting to hear how players feel about this kind of stuff, because they're the people who are effected by it. Can you imagine if you're a pitcher trying to make it in the big leagues, and Alex Rodriguez, the guy with the highest salary in the game, is giving the other team your pitches and probably helping you get a ticket back to Triple-A?When it was reported last February that Alex Rodriguez had tested positive for steroids in 2003, the reaction around baseball was mostly one of shock. Thursday's revelation that Rodriguez might have been tipping pitches to opposing hitters while playing shortstop for the Rangers from 2001-03 elicited a similar reaction from his former Texas teammates, with one important distinction: this might be even worse.
"In a lot of ways, it's worse than steroids and HGH," said Twins pitcher R.A. Dickey. "It's so much worse because you're harming another person deliberately."
These latest allegations -- that A-Rod might have been purposely tipping pitches to opposing hitters while playing shortstop for the Rangers in the hopes that they would return the favor for him -- landed like a body blow to former teammates Doug Glanville and Dickey. When told of the news, Glanville, who played with the Rangers in 2003 and is now retired, said "Oh wow." Dickey's first reaction was "Oh gosh man."
Shane Spencer, though, was not surprised. Spencer came to the Rangers from the Indians in a July 2003 trade and it wasn't long after his arrival that he began hearing whispers in his new, divided clubhouse about Rodriguez. "It was brought up. I overheard it but not from specific people," said Spencer, now a coach with the high Class-A Lake Elsinore (Calif.) Storm. "I think I overheard it in our clubhouse, but that team was really split up -- a bunch of groups of threes and fours. It wasn't a real close clubhouse and guys start talking especially when you're getting your butt kicked everyday. I remember hearing that."
Both Glanville and Dickey were reluctant to believe the allegations, which are a part of Selena Roberts' forthcoming book "A-Rod," until further information is made available, but neither could be sure that it didn't happen either. "I certainly didn't know or see anything like that," said Glanville. "Obviously if that's true that would be insane. I don't remember hearing anything about that when I was there. Of course it would be egregious and unforgivable."
"From personal experience, I can tell you I've seen nothing or heard nothing that would support any chapter in that book that says that," said Dickey. "Then again, it's not so far outside the realm of possibility where you could dismiss it because obviously it could happen. It's mind-boggling."
Not to Spencer. The journeyman outfielder said that while he never saw or heard of other players doing that, he wouldn't have been surprised if Rodriguez wasn't the only one doing so. "I'm sure it does happen. There are friends of friends. I'm sure there are catchers out there that have told guys what's coming. Hopefully it didn't happen [in Texas] and hopefully it didn't happen that often."
The allegations, which were first made public in a New York Daily News story on Thursday, are in Roberts' book, which will be released on Monday. In a phone interview with SI.com, Roberts said that over the course of a couple years, some people with the Rangers began to detect a pattern whereby Rodriguez would appear to be giving away pitch type and location to hitters, always middle infielders who would then be able to repay him in kind when he was at the plate, with his body movement. According to Roberts' sources, "If it was a changeup, he would twist his glove hand. To indicate a slider, he would sweep the dirt in front of him and he would bend in the direction of where the pitch was going to be, inside or outside." Roberts' sources stressed that this only occurred in games that had long since been decided and was done for "slump insurance. You can count on your buddy to help break you out of your slump. There was no intent to throw a game or change the outcome."
That explanation wasn't sufficient for Glanville or Dickey, who said "There's no situation that would ever justify him doing that on any level. That's somebody's ERA that's somebody's livelihood, that's somebody trying to provide for their family. I'm holding on to the belief that it's not true. No one with a conscience could do that. Blows me away."
So what do you think is worse, steroids or tipping pitches?
24 Comments:
Wasn't pitch tipping fairly common in the old days?
I know pitchers and catchers would sometimes tell hitters what was coming, but I'm not sure about other position players tipping off the other team.
But back in the day when players didn't get paid well and gambling still had an influence in the game it wouldn't surprise me if players did that sort of thing.
Greg- they just read some of one of your posts on Sportscenter! Congrats buddy!
No way... Are you serious? You can't be serious.
I find it hard to believe even for A-Rod. Seems like that sort of thing would get out right away. From what I've seen so far Selena Roberts has written a book with loads of "unnamed sources, speculation, and innuendo". To me it appears that the only real information she has is the original 2003 test result. From there she seems to have built herself a nice little franchise.
I don't like A-Rod and I'm upfront about that but to me Selena Roberts represents everything that's wrong with this country. She is making a killing by riding the coattails of someone who worked hard to get to where he is. Like I said, I don't like A-Rod but I respect what he has done, steroids aside. What has Roberts done?
I know what you mean, Dan. But A-Rod has been proven to be a liar and Roberts has not, at least not yet. So I really don't know who to believe.
Mark,
You were messing with me, right?
Ohh we have to stop already.. THIS IS NEW's WORTHY? Sounds more like a few people didn't like him, and started gossiping like a bunch of women. A ROD is a dick, lets face it, he is not liked by baseball players. But that comes with being cocky, and being the highest paid player in the game.
Did he do roids.. yeah he did. He was looking around baseball, thinking look at these guys breaking records, imagine what I could do.. He wanted to make sure he was going to be the guy who broke all the records, and if they are doing it, then why can't I. A Rod ad stupid as he can be, is a smart guy.. and had no idea how the roids thing would change baseball. he will forever be punished now.. looked at as a cheater, like Bonds and Mark. So be it, he is a Yankee, and hope he add to what we already have when he gets back.
Basil
Basil, I agree that A-Rod is not to blame for all of baseball's steroid problems. There were hundreds of players who cheated and the owners, managers, Selig and the players' union all looked the other way.
However, this post is not even about steroids, it's about tipping pitches.
And Mark, I just got emails from a couple people who saw the ESPN mention. That's so cool. Thanks for the heads up.
Congrats on the ESPN nod....very cool. We all agree A-Rod is an asshole and yes he is a proven liar, but I see no reason to give much credence to anything Roberts has to say.
Keep in mind this is the same Roberts who had "sources" on the Duke lacrosse team scandal. She seems to take whatever is told to her about A-Rod as full truth...That being said I'm a diehard Yankee fan who has cursed out A-Rod on the television more times than I can remember, booed him at the stadium, and wished he wasn't on the Yankees. But at the same time I dont want to see him on another team. He IS one of the best hitters in the game and he WILL make this lineup scary. If he comes back and helps the team out there will be less talk about these sports gossip stories and more about the chances of the Yankees winning a championship. As far as pitch-tipping do they have any real proof of this or is it another he said/she said matter. Theres been cheating in baseball since its existence. Lets not all of a sudden pretend now that the game has been so "disgraced".
-G
Congrats on the ESPN callout, Greg. I must admit I am jealous. Goes to show you, you never know who is reading your stuff.
On the tipping business--- I would like to know who these 'sources' are. The whole story lacks credibility if other ballplayers are afraid to come forth & stand up for their comments. How can you believe it when somebody makes wild accusations and says "unnamed sources"? You can say anything you want to, anything.
Thanks Steve. I'm pretty shocked.
And good point about the unnamed sources. I'm not saying she's definitively telling the truth, but it really wouldn't surprise me at all if she was.
I think she is truthfully writing what she is being told by these sources. I think that's a more accurate statement.
I am writing up a posting of my own right now, and while I will link to Ted Keith's article, i am going to mention you too. Hey, if you're good enough for ESPN, you're good enough for me.
;-))
I am serious!!!!! Congrats bud!
Thanks dude.
lol thanks Steve.
Both the steroids -- and more so, A-Rod's absurd reasoning and excuses -- and pitch-tipping point to a complete lack of character.
Barry Bonds has more allies because he's at least genuine to some degree.
Think of all the great Yankees that had strong character, even with their flaws -- Mantle, Ruth, Jeter, Gehrig, DiMag, Ford, O'Neill, Mattingly. A-Rod is an embarassment to the Yankee uniform and everything it stands for.
What's $300 million to a team valued at five times that price? Nothing. Make an example of A-Rod by eating his salary and trading him to any team that thinks he'd be an asset.
Good luck with that -- the guy has been in the league for 15 years and no one -- NO ONE -- affliated with MLB defends him.
Poor A-Rod. Vicimized by his agent, by his cousin, by his bum hip. If he weren't so odious, I'd feel sorry for him.
Greg, what did they show on ESPN?
yeah....which post did they read?
The ARod post from yesterday.
nice...congrats man...
LOL @ Doug Glanville and RA Dickey they dont deserve to even mention A-Rod's name.
Whatever problems A-Rod might have with steroids, he's a great ballplayer and a competitor who loves playing the game. In fact, his ego is entirely invested in how good a ballplayer he is. I don't see this as vaguely possible and judging from the text of what Selena Roberts said, no one could prove it. They just speculated. That's nothing more than an allegation that helps book sales. I don't love A-Rod by a long shot but he gets the benefit of the doubt in this one. Roberts doesn't.
I have a hard time with this. I see nothing that even resembles a player saying they had heard he did it, or speculated he did it. All i see is a reaction to the question of "would they be surprised" if it was true? Spencer said he wouldn't be surprised. Did he say that he heard it was going on? Maybe I am reading the quotes wrong. I just don't buy it. Full disclosure - I am a yankee fan. But if it's true that he pitch tipped - to me, that's way worse than steroids. One can argue that drugs/supplements is a form of cheating (if it's not banned by the sports, then how is it cheating?). But no one can argue whether tipping off the other team is cheating. It blatantly is.
To write something that bold, you need a real source and some sort of evidence - in my opinion.
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