This wasn't the only article today about Yankees catchers, Paul Catalano of Dugout Central says it's time for Francisco Cervelli to catch:One unsettling fact for the Yankees is the difference when Jorge Posada catches. With Posada behind the plate, the Yankees’ pitchers have a 6.31 E.R.A. The combined E.R.A. with Francisco Cervelli, Jose Molina and Kevin Cash is 3.81.
Posada has caught four starts by Chien-Ming Wang, whose job status is now evaluated on a game-by-game basis. Even removing those starts, the staff’s E.R.A. with Posada is still high, at 5.47.
Posada, 37, has handled many exceptional pitchers in his career. Although some, like Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina, have preferred other catchers, Posada does not have to apologize for his résumé. Posada takes his job seriously and is an emotional engine of the team.
Yet Burnett, in particular, seems to struggle with him. In Burnett’s four starts pitching to Posada, opponents have batted .330. In nine starts with the other catchers, the average is .223.
When he lost a six-run lead in Boston in April, Burnett questioned the pitch selection, though he blamed himself, not Posada. Asked Sunday about the difference in pitching to the rookie Cervelli, Burnett gave a careful but revealing answer.
“I think it’s just a matter of — I don’t know if it’s the catcher — but we threw curveballs in fastball counts, we had them looking for something and they had no idea what was coming, I don’t think,” Burnett said. “That’s huge.”
Manager Joe Girardi has started Cervelli once in each of the five series since Posada came off the disabled list May 29. But Posada remains an elite hitter, and there is substantial value in having his bat in the lineup. Only Teixeira has a better slugging percentage than Posada’s .568.
“Jorge is obviously that rare combination of being a catcher and an offensive player,” Cashman said Monday. “Cervelli and Molina are more one-sided, to the defensive side. I can’t really say why there’s a difference. It could be sample size. It could be that the other guys are just better defensive players.”
Girardi is the one who must match the catchers to the pitchers and make the juggling work. The fate of the pitching staff and, by extension, the season, might depend on it.
I think Francisco Cervelli should begin taking over the catching duties for the Yankees.OK, I’m not putting Jorge Posada out to pasture….yet. But the time is coming. He is 37 years old, which is positively Jurassic by catching standards. And to put it mildly, his best days as a catcher and game caller might be behind him. If the above sentence from Burnett is any indication of how the pitching staff feels, then maybe Posada should spend more time at the DH position than at the catching position.
OK, here are some stats. Opposing hitters are hitting .255 off of Yankee pitchers when Cervelli catches: They are hitting .285 off of the pitchers when Posada catches. When Cervelli catches, pitchers have a 2.26 SO/BB ratio; for Posada it’s 1.42. Opposing batters have an OPS of .755 when Cervelli catches; .841 when Posada catches.
And the truth is, Posada was never the best game-caller; he was always a “hitting catcher.” That’s not a knock—he wasn’t a bad catcher…he just wasn’t the best game caller. He was never a Varitek or Charles Johnson type.
And right now—who knows about September?—right now, you’re not missing much when Cervelli is in there. Posada definitely has the power advantage over Cervelli, but Cervelli is batting .298 to Posada’s .288, which is not bad. And frankly, the Yankees don’t need the home runs right now—they lead the league with 102 home runs….by 10.
And defensively, you gain by having Cervelli back there. His fielding percentage is higher (.993 to .986) and has a better caught stealing percentage than Posada (38% to 32%).
Of course, this is overstating it a bit. But not as much as you would think. The Yankees went out and spent the national debt on the front end of a pitching rotation. Why would you then put them in a position not to succeed? To not put them in the best position to pitch well?
They probably should, but I know the Yankees aren't going to stop playing Posada everyday. Between what he has done for this team in the past and the money they have tied up in him they're going to continue to run him out there. I know those are two terrible reasons to play someone, but you guys know that's how the Yankees (and a lot of teams) work. That's the only reason they gave him that stupid four-year deal in the first place.It’s just that this year—when the Yankee rotation is completely overhauled; when we have two new pitchers in Burnett and Sabathia (by the way, the stats holds true for Sabathia; opposing hitters hit .256 in the 5 games Posada called; a freakish .190 in the 6 games Cervelli was catching.), 2 young pitchers in Chamberlain and Hughes, and a pitcher struggling to return to form in Wang—what the Yankees need more than ever, is a catcher who is going to call the best possible game so that our staff feels comfortable and produces.
And if Burnett is any indication, the staff feels more comfortable with Cervelli.
For now I don't think he should catch A.J. Burnett anymore, that's the least the Yanks can do. Clearly Burnett doesn't like throwing to Posada and has done better when he someone else is behind the plate, whether it's Cervelli, Cash or Molina. And with how important he is to this staff I think the Yankees should keep Cervelli behind the plate for his games.
If it were up to me I'd probably have Cervelli catch CC too - he's pitched his best with Cervelli behind the plate - and let Pettitte, Joba and Wang/Hughes throw to Posada. But like I said, I don't think the Yanks are ready to stop playing Posada every day, even if the stats say it continues to hurt them in certain situations.
What about you, how would you handle this situation?
23 Comments:
Posada is at the age where he should be gradually phased into another position or DH, but there's nowhere to putt him. This is the first year where it's become a glaring problem. Torre and his coaches may have done a better job of reigning Posada in and finding a harmonious balance between him and the pitchers.
This may be an example of what little managing is really going on and the fact that the team really sorts itself.
Like Ive said before, it seems that when our pitchers shake off Posada's call a couple times it ends up being the right pitch. The problem is we dont have much room to rotate him in the DH that much. It should only be a juggling act this year but hopefully next year after Matsui is gone and possibly Damon we can call up Jackson, have Posada DH and catch maybe a third to half the year, and have one more strong bat come in to that rotation.
-G
G,
I agree, I think next year this won't be an issue because the DH spot should be open. But there is always the possibility that Posada complains. Remember last year when he got upset because Girardi was starting him at first or DHing him? He said something like "I'm a catcher." Meanwhile, he ends up on the DL a week later.
Cervelli should be catching AJ and CC no doubt about it. When Yanks were up 6-0 in boston and AJ started to throw fastball after fastball to an excellent fastball hitting team that was Jorge's fault for not keeping them off balance.
It breaks my heart to say this (not really) because I am a big Jorge fan, but I feel great when I see Cervelli's name in the lineup. He's got some real fire behind the dish. One big name we're forgetting here is Joba Chamberlain, who just could not get it going with Posada whatsoever. Let Cervelli handle him for a while.
Simply Yes, Jorge is a hall of fame catcher at the end of his career. It is time to make Cervelli the everyday catcher and have Jorge DH. Time to Release Molina and put an outfielder on the 40 man.
Dennis Tampa
This is not the first year that is has been a problem. You are just so used to it that you have ignored it. It has been a problem for years. Posada's ERA as a catcher (over his lifetime) is atrocious. And, his game calling is a major reason why we haven't won in the playoffs in years. Furthermore, Posada has a me first attitude. That's obvious. Which is a problem and a detriment
Lastly, I think you should place very close attention what AJ words. They are VERY telling. He said: “I think it’s just a matter of — I DON'T KNOW IF ITS THE CATCHER — but we threw curveballs in fastball counts, we had them looking for something and they had no idea what was coming, I don’t think,” Burnett said. “That’s huge.”
Simple fact is that Posada has no business catching. How many pitchers and money has Posada and this team wasted because Posada was the catcher? That is the real question.
posada should definitely dh, but then the yanks have to trade nady or swisher. and their lineup will suffer.
Anon, this wasn't a problem in '07. Here are the catcher's ERAs for the year:
Molina: 4.65
Posada: 4.52
Nieves: 4.43
Plus he had his best offensive year ever.
In '06 he had a 4.39 CERA compared to Nieves' 4.74.
In '05 it was 4.69 compared to John Flaherty's 4.18 but he more than made up for that half run with his offensive production.
This really only became an issue recently.
Posada definitely needs to catch less often, if for no other reason than to protect his body. The team needs that bat in the lineup, and he keeps missing time with leg and arm problems. He really shouldn't catch more than about 65 games next year.
cervelli should catch cc and aj let posoda catch the othrer 3 starters.
What I would do is go back in time to when they gave Matsui a 4-year contract extension in 2006 and kidnap Cashman and Steinbrenner to prevent it from happening.
That way, Posada could have slid into the part-time DH role.
OF course, the Yankees wouldn't get all that revenue from the Japanese advertisements on the outfield walls, but oh well.
I don't think these articles are putting this myriad of statistics into perspective.
We've had at least four different men behind the plate so far this season, in only 63 games. The front end of the rotation is all new and the young guys are only just now settling into being full time starters.
Factor in the injuries to the catchers and the overall inconsistency of the pitchers, and I don't feel there has been enough time for any battery/pairing to really get into a groove.
I think Girardi and Cash will relax and watch how the season plays out. We need a much bigger sample size before we can label Posada as a liability and hand the reigns over to Cervelli.
I think cervelli behind the plate is great...he is very emotional and seems to have a cannon for a arm...plus he does a good job when batting..he seems to work the count ok and from what i have seen gets these big rallys started or keeps them going..i would DH jorge more often
It is what it is this year. Hopefully this year will be enough a sample size for Cash and Girardi (if still employed) to wake up and clear out the DH spot a little more.
-G
Here's a quote from David Cone about Posada from Don Amore's article today:
“You can’t lay it all on Jorge,” Cone said. “He did a great job with Boomer [Wells], he did a great job with Rocket. Those guys let him lead. He wants to lead, and that’s what he’s there for. You have to let him lead early in a game. If you’re shaking him off right from the start, like Joba was, you’re going to have a tough time.”
Just thought it was interesting and relevant.
Not all pitchers are Rocket and Wells. Jorge needs to let some pitchers call the game they want it. Again shows hes too stubborn sometimes.
I agree Anon.
bring posada in to catch in games already decided when he's not DHing
Frankly, Cone's opinion or statement is irrelevant and not objective. He's an announcer for the Yankees. This is pure bias. We have no clue what his true opinion is because he doesn't have the guts to tell it.
And, Posada allowed 4.80 runs per 9IP in 2007. That is awful. Molina and Nieves only had 140 plate appearances combined. Their numbers are pretty much irrelevant. Posada played in 144 games. Allowing 4.8 runs per 9 IP is NOT acceptable at all. Posada is THE problem and has been for years.
His career numbers are atrocious. He is not a good defensive catcher and he is even a worse signal caller.
His career numbers are as follows.
1997 5.24
1998 3.99
1999 4.65
2000 4.97
2001 4.21
2002 4.18
2003 4.43
2004 5.01
2005 5.17
2006 4.71
2007 4.80
2008 5.03
2009 6.72
The only decent year is 1998. And, 3.99 is nothing special compared to some HOF catchers. They routinely had numbers in the low 3's.
How many times have you seen Posada tag a runner out at home? He's terrible at that too.
Bigger sample size? We have 10+ years of Posada catching. His runs allowed over 9 IP stinks for his whole career. We dont anymore numbers. Posada = DH.
Cone himself hated having Posada the catcher. He loved throwing to Girardi. He is just making excuses for Jorge.
Well I dont know about that because I dont recall, but it would not surprise me. But, Cone is not going to say anythign negative about Posada. He works as a broadcaster.
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