OK, so I guess the Joba Chamberlain theme will be a day-long thing. Oh well, when there's news, there's news. This time it's Brian Cashman who had some things to say about Joba and his role in the postseason. These quotes come from
Pete Caldera:
“He needs to declare himself,’’ Cashman said. “He’s no different than anyone else.’’
“Everybody loves his tenacity,’’ Cashman said. “But we’re going to take the best 10 guys. There’s no assumptions there.’’
“He’s put himself in a position where the manager has to make a decision that there’s not one guy ahead of him that he needs to give the ball to,’’ Cashman said. “He might not realize it, but he’s in competition with any number of guys to take the ball.’’
He's basically saying Joba has to pitch better or he won't even find himself on the postseason roster, so it would appear that Cash is getting a little sick of Joba's act as well.
30 Comments:
Joba to the Pen.
Gaudin's then the numero 4 starter.
Bullpen would go Joba-Phil-Mo, 7-8-9.
Roto would go CC-Aj-Andy-Chad
Leaves Aceves and Mitre as the long men if needed.
Would allow Aceves, Marte, Coke, Bruney and Robertson for the middle innings.
Case Closed.
It all depends on what kind of stuff Joba would bring with him out of the pen. If he can dominate, at this point I'd go with that. If he can't I don't know what they should do with him. The only way they're going to find out what he can do out of the pen is by testing him in the regular season. I supposed if he has another stinker against Boston they could spend the last week+ converting him back to a reliever.
Durden, you could not have said it any better. 100% agree
After Joba's miserable performance a few nights ago, they shouldn't be questioning what to do, they should start using him out of the pen NOW. Let the Angels and Sox see what they are dealing with and show that you have another weapon out of the pen.
Plus if they start it now it gives me more then a week to get back in reliever shape, 1 week may not be enough for him.
This is when I wish Moose would have signed a half year deal like a Byrd or Clemens, the debate would be over.
Even if Joba can only (i guess only would fit here) get it up to 95-96, i would take him hughes and Mo 7-8-9 over Bruney/Coke-hughes-Mo. This is assuming, hoping, and praying that he can throw that for 1, 2 innings tops, and that his slider still can have that nastiness it had at the end of 07 and even 08.
This would be my ideal Postseason Roster (I'll go through all positions because I'm bored):
C- Posada
1B- Teixiera
2B- Cano
3B- Rodriguez
SS- Jeter
LF- Damon
CF- Cabrera (better defense + Gardner's speed late)
RF- Swisher
DH- Matsui
Bench: Gardner, Molina, Hairston, Hinske
Pitchers:
1. Sabathia
2. Burnett (PRAYING he does as well as he did the other night)
3. Pettitte
4. Gaudin
Pen:
Long Relief:
Mitre, Aceves (Aceves- middle relief too)
Other Relievers:
Coke, Robertson, Marte
7. Chamberlain
8. Hughes
9. Rivera
This is all dependent on Joba's ability, and Girardi and Cashman's ability to get their heads in the game and realize this guy is a reliever.
My concern is that his days of throwing above 94 are over. If he can, then he should go to the pen for the rest of the year.
That's what I'm saying, this guy was born to be a reliever and the Yankee brass is retarded for thinking this guy could throw 95 consistently out of the rotation. Every good thing needs to start somewhere, and that should be here. I hate to put it like this, but the reincarnation of the Papelbon problem needs to be put to an end here.
My whole thing, from the start, had been to give Joba a chance to prove himself as a starter. They did, and he didn't. So as of now I have no problem if they want to shelve those plans. Do what's best for the team.
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Papelbon had arm problems. They wanted him to be a top of the line starter. The Red Sox execs saw this, put him as closer. The thing is- Yankee execs see that #42 is still saving games, and that the relievers are "good enough to get by", that they don't need to put Joba in the setup role. Well, guess what, they do.
Greg,
I've felt the same way. I was all for Joba the starter, until he blew it. Put Joba the dominator back in.
Joba is an emotional pitcher it is obvious Cashman & Girardi are trying to light a fire under him.
This will be the first round playoff roster.
1. Sabathia
2. Burnett
3. Pettitte
4. Chamberlain
CP- Rivera
RP- Hughes
RP- Coke
RP- Aceves
RP- Robertson (if healthy)
RP- Gaudin
I think Bruney wont make the 1st round team and I dont thing Marte will either, Girardi doesn't seem to trust him.
that's not enough relievers, and I do think that Girardi trusts Marte, just doesn't use him. I think they realize Gaudin is a guy that will give a chance to win, unlike Joba who gives you a chance to win 1 out of every 5 times.
man i guess yankee fans are ridiculously impatient. The kid is not what 23 , 24 years old , and this is his first season as a starter. Have you not seen what zach grienke has done this year, after what five years in the league. GEESE give it a rest people. Im not saying that the kid is in denial , but atleast he is confident. Problem is that development of starters takes more time then you fans are willing to wait. Yanks will be in the postseason this year, and they're pitchers will be utlized to the best of their current abilities, if that means pitching joba out of the pen then so be it, but for god sake , grow up people. I mean the one guy who said he doesnt throw 95 consistently, yea so 93-94 isnt good enough i guess. Lets ask Mike mussina or pedro martniez what he thinks of that , theyd laugh at you. Bottom line is suck it up while they develop, in the mean time , the yanks will use them to the best of their abilities and in a way that is best for the team in the post season.
I dont mind using Joba in the bullpen for the playoffs that was there original plan if Wang was healthy. But I dont see Gaudin as the 4th starter and being a better option.
Also you have to give Joba next year as a starter and see how he does before you can judge if he belongs in the bullpen or as a starter.
Pedro and Moose were pitchers. Joba's not yet. He's only been throwing 90-92, not even 93-94.... it's his second year starting, and yes the Joba rules could screw with anyone. But still, the guy needs to be a reliever, a career ERA of 1.00 as a reliever says that too.
Joba will really have to prove himself in the spring, but not October. It's not the time for a young guy, with problems in the playoffs already, to try and "figure things out." It's time for someone like Gaudin to let the best offense in the MLB to do work.
Joeyankee26 said...
that's not enough relievers, and I do think that Girardi trusts Marte, just doesn't use him. I think they realize Gaudin is a guy that will give a chance to win, unlike Joba who gives you a chance to win 1 out of every 5 times.
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There are a couple of off days which is why they only need 6 reliever.
I believe the yankees are are 20-10 in Joba's starts. Joba gives them a chance to win most nights. The seattle game and the two games in texas are really the only 3 games this year Joba took the team out of it.
Anon, he's got an ERA in the mid-8's over his last 9 or 10 starts. THe only reason the Yankees remained in some of those games was because he only pitched 3 innings. But 3 runs in 3 innings is terrible.
go look at how ridiculously bad zach grienke was before this year. I think the problem is that all of you wish this was the national league where young pitchers with good stuff can put up good numbers as young pitchers even thou they make alot of mistakes pitching wise. Just ask the orioles and blue jays how hard it is and how long it takes to develop good starters in the AL east. All i can say is im very happy that brian cashman and joe girardi arent as impatient and foolish as the fans.
Well Greg, its me and you vs the Anon's.
you guys can complain all you want but the bottom line is joba is getting at least another year as a starter, so you can root for him to fail just so youll be right if you want.
I'm not going to root for him to fail, I'm just going to be right when in June or July, if he fails- not saying he will, I'll be right then. He should be a reliever --- any sane person sees that...
I hate to go back to this- but Jon Papelbon
but don't get me wrong, I will be insanely happy if this guy does become a great starter, this whole thing was about though, he shouldn't try and work out the kinks in October.
Anon, you must have started reading this blog yesterday. I have always been on the side of Joba being a starter. Also, the last thing I'm gonna do is root for him to fail. I'd rather never be right again if it meant the Yankees would win.
But for the remainder of this season I'm not so sure the Yankees are better off with him starting. He has shown nothing but inconsistency and he's getting worse as the year goes on.
Joba being a starter is fine with me, if can do it well, but that hasn't been this season- as Greg said high 8s ERA recently, and for the best of this team--- a team that shows chemistry and drive more than any Yankee team since 98-01, maybe 03. I don't want 1 player with problems getting productive starts, and innings --- we'd have to use 2 starters everyday he pitches, screwing that up.
07- Joba the Godsend
08- Joba the only God knows what
09- Joba the "OH MY GOD, take him out"/postseason reliever
10- Joba the starter is fine if he can do it well
Last night the choices of Bruney and Albaladejo essentially give the team little but hope. In the playoffs, pitching is what wins, not the potential to hit home runs- this can disappear for a few games. Alceves should be used more regularly in a relief role. He was not used last night to save him to cover for those who shouldn’t be starting. Joba may be good for something, but he is not currently a starter or even a reliever. At this point Joba cannot be relied on in any post-season role.
A manager needs to make the difficult and unpopular choices early, and not wait for the choice to be essentially made for him. Girardi tends to fall back on habit, even when things aren't working. He is not using some pitchers to the point of rust, even when they perform well. He needs to get over his misplaced loyalty to a few players and see them for what they are. Would you want to depend on Joba, Bruney, Ramierez, or Albaladejo in the post-season?
Cashman has helped, but is too focused on his predetermined plan and can’t adjust. When the starting rotation needed support, he did little. Even the best team needs tweaking for the post-season. His unwillingness or inability to adapt has left the team in a precarious position. What should have been a sure thing, and is now a toss-up.
“He’s no different than anyone else.’’
-Now THAT'S funny.
Cashman should really shut up because he's partly to blame. He picked the people responsible for developing young talent. I point to the bullpen. How come every young prospect who goes to the bullpen looks like a star but the minute they're in the rotation it's down hill? Maybe the bullpen coach should be in the dugout.
I'm glad Cashman said this, but he is indeed partly to blame for what happened.
I'd say leave Joba off the playoff roster.
Mike
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